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Post by Jazzler on May 16, 2009 17:49:17 GMT
Ok, so I went down to the track today for a quick practice.. 5 Minutes later the diff screw snaps. Anyway, I've ordered up a load of new bits to do a complete diff rebuild, but wanted to know what grease people recommend to use in the diff. Any advice appreciated..
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 16, 2009 20:04:59 GMT
Everyone will tell you something different, but all of the below will work.
Big balls: Schumacher, Tamiya or Much More diff grease. Thrust: Associated Black, Tamiya Anti-wear or Much More thrust grease.
Terry stocks the Much More ones I think.
As for amounts, pack the thrust with as much as you can get in. But on the big balls use some, not tiny amounts, but don't lash it on. Personally I just roll the big balls in a blob of it. Smear the washers in some and I'm done.
Again, everyone will tell you different with the amount of grease to use too!
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Post by Jazzler on May 16, 2009 23:12:31 GMT
That'll do... Thank you simon. I'll try your method and see how I get on with that...
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Post by lesbaldry on May 17, 2009 18:27:49 GMT
Early Cyclone Diffs (not pro diff) had a habit of snapping screws, there is a upgrade available As for grease I prefer the Stealth Associated,or the Hudy,both are quite thick,the Tamiya grease even though very good is thin,it don't seem to last as well.
As simon Said people have various opinions on the amount of grease to use,I tend to use it sparingly,just a light smear on each ring and a very small amount spread in the pulley holes,any more than this seems to centrifuge out,too much grease can drag and make the diff feel "gummy" when spun buy hand.
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Post by yellowshark on May 18, 2009 11:23:54 GMT
Early Cyclone Diffs (not pro diff) had a habit of snapping screws, there is a upgrade available. LOL Les, at least the Xray upgrades are performance improvement developments(often aimed at specific tuning for either asphalt or carpet tracks), not upgrades so you can get your car to last 5 minutes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by lesbaldry on May 18, 2009 11:57:04 GMT
Early Cyclone Diffs (not pro diff) had a habit of snapping screws, there is a upgrade available. LOL Les, at least the Xray upgrades are performance improvement developments(often aimed at specific tuning for either asphalt or carpet tracks), not upgrades so you can get your car to last 5 minutes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Oh dear Peter...the Cyclone diff upgrade (just a tiny screw) is minuscule compared to items needed to make a Xray perform...Peronaly I ran HPI/Hot bodies for years and never torque snapped one...but I rebuilt my diffs regularly(something that the new/ club racer can neglect)...diff, thats the thing that has a side thrust that needs grease now and then(stops touque snapping)..if you finaly realise your diff has one and you know where it is.... How strange the 008 Asphalt car "yes Asphalt" come out with a 6 month later upgrade top/rear deck for ...wait for it...Asphalt...along with other kit mods/upgrades to stop fouling issues, no doubt the 009.5 and 009.6 will have them as std along with proper shocks and drive shafts that dont fall apart on the second lap... lol As far as I am awear no up grades and mods for design issues have ever been NEEDED for the Cyclone TC since it was released,nor for its predecessors the worlds edition and the std Black Cyclone...and thats quite a few 00's and mods/upgrades ago Back to subject???
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 18, 2009 17:21:50 GMT
Oh quit the thread hijacking, if you want to xray v cyclone battle have a separate thread, it's got boring now!
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Post by Reuben on May 18, 2009 17:33:10 GMT
Im using the stuff that came with the pro-diff.. the hot bodies stuff? red and a white small button like container.
But ive never tried anything else, as that stuff seems to work fine for me
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 18, 2009 17:57:44 GMT
Is that for the big balls Reuben? What do they supply for the thrust?
I've been using the Tamiya stuff, and I'd agree with Les, it does seem a bit thin, almost runny, I suspect it does come out a bit too quick maybe.
That said I'll probably keep using it until the tube runs out! Which could be a year or two, unless I keep lending it to Jeff Smith, I swear he used half a tube the other week.
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Post by yellowshark on May 18, 2009 18:31:25 GMT
LOL Les, at least the Xray upgrades are performance improvement developments(often aimed at specific tuning for either asphalt or carpet tracks), not upgrades so you can get your car to last 5 minutes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [glow=red,2,300]Oh dear Peter...the Cyclone diff upgrade (just a tiny screw) is minuscule compared to items needed to make a Xray perform...[/glow] Lordy Lordy Les, let’s look at reality 20/11/07 T2 008 Purchased 13/04/08 SLCC B final 11/05/08 SLCC A final 29/06/08 STCC B final 20/07/08 BRCA Juniors A final 25/07/08 1st upgrade – Alu shocks 17/08/08 SLCC A final 20/09/08 2nd upgrade - revised top deck 5/12/08 final upgrade - ECS drive shafts 29/03/09 Yup you sure have to buy lots of upgrades for an Xray to make it go fast, I think not [glow=red,2,300]How strange the 008 Asphalt car "yes Asphalt" come out with a 6 month later upgrade top/rear deck for ...wait for it...Asphalt...[/glow] Yup, just like the Cyclone the Xray comes with a top deck suited to both asphalt and carpet. Unlike the Cyclone the Xray offers the same car specced differently to suit either carpet or asphalt giving a greater choice. And then some it continues to develop performance parts for those that want that extra tenth [glow=red,2,300]along with other kit mods/upgrades to stop fouling issues,[/glow] Les are you referring to batteries? 6cell packs do not foul, trust me – happy to bring a pack along on Sunday. Or the belt? Hands up, they let this through. On the 2.375 IR the belt was grazing, ie would wear out faster. BUT XRAY realised the boo boo (albeit small in reality) and within a month shipped a FREE upgrade to ALL customers. [glow=red,2,300]As far as I am awear no up grades and mods for design issues have ever been NEEDED for the Cyclone TC since it was released,[/glow] Brushless motor mount set – standard on 008 ;D MIDDLE CHASSIS WOVEN GRAPHITE – STANDARD ON 008 ;D And the 008 is cheaper ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by mattsedgley on May 18, 2009 18:44:14 GMT
I think the original post was a question about how to build diffs.. - maybe we can get back on topic and help Jason?
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Post by TryHard on May 18, 2009 19:38:13 GMT
Sorry Pete, I got you beat... Buy a 416 WE, and what upgrades to do you need... erm, springs, thats it! Nothing more, as proved by one G Doman and co at the weekend And my bad for going off topic, so to bring it back... Schuey greese is reckoned to be the les' knackers (dog reference ), as it's quit thick and doesn't get thrown out of the diff easily. I've got a tub in my box, but have yet to use it as I'm still having very nice feeling diffs with the Much More greese, which is very similar. As for snapping the diff screw, not really very much you can do bar upgrade it like les says, it was a well known issue when the original cyclone came out... I did here of one person doing one every run one meeting!! But with the beefed up version, thats no longer an issue HiH Ed
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Post by Jazzler on May 18, 2009 20:24:24 GMT
Well, I have ordered a pair of screws at a cost of little more than £2.
So I will see how they are, and if it goes again I guess I'll have to upgrade to the TC's pro spec diff. In all honesty I did neglect my diff. I have been using it even though I knew full well that it needed a rebuild.
As simon had said to me, it was knotchy and getting stuck sometimes.
Not to worry, we all learn somehow..
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Post by lesbaldry on May 18, 2009 20:26:55 GMT
I think the original post was a question about how to build diffs.. - maybe we can get back on topic and help Jason? Spot on !!... Jason the upgrade screw is well worth fitting,also regular maintenance with the correct grease is esential..thick or thin it dont make too much difference really,only to the amount of strip/cleans..Tamiya tube diff lube is good value though but you will need a good quality graphite grease for the side thrust race..the side thrust race is as important to maintain as the main diff..if this gums up it will snap any thin screw or damage the internals of the out drive. Dear Mr Cambell sir..quoting "club level" results has absolutely no bearing upon the make of car...or can I quote the 09 world champ results here???..its a good driver with a working set up that wins!!...I strongly recommend that any one who has only known one make of car for a short period race,experience and maintain other makes, learn their pit falls and good points for a fair few years,then that person may understand and can quote what is economic and practical for the club man in stock classes,also please bear in mind I have owned race,and maintained the Xray and Cyclone,plus I understand what needs to be done to both to make them work well.. nor do I need to ask basic advise on either ...... Ps the Xray diff in my opinion is one of the best and easiest to maintain...even the new Top Photon has copied it.
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Post by Reuben on May 18, 2009 20:49:25 GMT
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Post by yellowshark on May 18, 2009 21:26:01 GMT
Apologies when I entered a new title I thought I was creating a new thread. Live & learn
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Post by lesbaldry on May 19, 2009 7:09:13 GMT
Well, I have ordered a pair of screws at a cost of little more than £2. So I will see how they are, and if it goes again I guess I'll have to upgrade to the TC's pro spec diff. Not really necessary jason,the screws and regular maint should cure all probs The Pro diff basically has a larger dia plates for the balls making it feel smoother(less pre load/tension needed on the screw/spring/side thrust for the same amount of slip/grip) there for allowing better performance in low grip conditions with less maintenance
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Post by Jazzler on May 19, 2009 8:12:38 GMT
Not really necessary jason,the screws and regular maint should cure all probs I hope so les...
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Post by Martin Young on May 19, 2009 9:08:14 GMT
Well, I have ordered a pair of screws at a cost of little more than £2. So I will see how they are, and if it goes again I guess I'll have to upgrade to the TC's pro spec diff. Not really necessary jason,the screws and regular maint should cure all probs I don't run the pro-diff in my cyclone and i have no problems, i do however strip and clean it reasonably regularly maybe once every two meetings.
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 19, 2009 9:15:56 GMT
Every couple of meetings? That seems very often, is that with ceramic balls and thrust?
I'm disappointed if I don't get 6 or 8 meetings from a diff build!
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Post by mattsedgley on May 19, 2009 9:33:03 GMT
mines had one since it was built from kit, although i've got a whole spare diff to drop in if it suddenly goes all notchy...
Matt
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 19, 2009 9:37:15 GMT
Had one what?
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Post by lesbaldry on May 19, 2009 9:38:23 GMT
Every couple of meetings? That seems very often, is that with ceramic balls and thrust? I'm disappointed if I don't get 6 or 8 meetings from a diff build! And 20 meetings out of a set of tyres toooo ;D I supose the less power you put through the car/diff the less wear too? (17.5 class) ....Simon does the 416 have large dia plates? and or covers...my old MSX had a tiny diff plates with small balls..and a thin screw too "it never snaped though "
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 19, 2009 10:10:02 GMT
My 415-MSXX (I don't have a 416!) has normal 3mm balls, 8 of them, normal sort of plates.
You can also use a different pulley and use large diameter 501X plates.
Use stick on covers.
Yeah, the screws are skinny M2 ones, they seem to last just fine.
(Oh yes, tyres ;-)
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Post by Martin Young on May 19, 2009 12:35:11 GMT
Every couple of meetings? That seems very often, is that with ceramic balls and thrust? I'm disappointed if I don't get 6 or 8 meetings from a diff build! The reason I now strip and clean the diff so often (no parts are replaced) is that I found with my very heavy throttle finger I would have issues on occasions with lots of on power oversteer, by rebuilding the diff regularly I find I don't have the oversteer issue any more. Works for me! I'm sure if I replaced some of the parts the diff, it would last longer.
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Post by Martin Young on May 19, 2009 12:36:37 GMT
mines had one since it was built from kit, although i've got a whole spare diff to drop in if it suddenly goes all notchy... Matt Pro diff or standard? If it's a pro-diff then they will last longer between rebuilds.
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Post by Jazzler on May 19, 2009 16:29:59 GMT
Right..My Diff is rebuilt, I went for the Muchmore diff and thrust grease's off terry. I have to say, it is soooooo much better than it ever was before. I even took the car over to the track for a little play, and the car just handles so much better...
Thank you to all who provided assistance... ;D
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Post by yellowshark on May 19, 2009 17:31:06 GMT
Don't need to rebuild XRAY diffs, by the time a refurb is on the cards, they bring out a new one to spend your money on ;D
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Post by lesbaldry on May 19, 2009 21:04:09 GMT
Don't need to rebuild XRAY diffs, by the time a refurb is on the cards, they bring out a new one to spend your money on ;D Nah Pete thats one thing they need to leave alone...Its one of the best as it is!!!...all sealed very little maint needed!!!!
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Post by mattsedgley on May 19, 2009 21:33:47 GMT
Ok so all this talk of diffs inspired me to take a look at my pro diff just to see what it was up to after some serious running.. at least 15 meets of 13.5...
I noticed on Saturday a little bit of power on oversteer, just like Martin had described. At the time I put it down to the track grip level coming up. Monday night I went up to Bashley to test some bits and noticed the same thing again despite having reset the car to Bashley setup...
When I took the diff apart tonight, I noticed it was notchy.. but not in the standard diff way.. it was very light, a really fine notch.. i'd have said it was fine had it been a standard diff... you couldn't notice it with the wheels on the car.. it was only when the diff was out and you were holding onto the outdrives..
Still I rebuilt it and double checked every setting on the car and completed the second "mini strip" and rebuild of the week double checking all settings.. everything else seemed fine, perhaps the diff was the only cause of the on power oversteer, had I thought about it on Monday, I could have dropped in the spare diff.. just to see what a difference it would have made to the handling of the car! (silly boy!)
Roll on tomorrow night!
Matt
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