XRAY setup forum

[yellowshark]

Hi Glen,

Are you running 1.7 or 1.9 IR?

Have you tried the motor forward option?

[gwesty]

hi pete , ive now run the 009 twice indoor and once out using 34 tooth pulleys , i am going to run the 38 tooth pullys this friday ! this is something i changed when at serpent and felt the car was easier to drive and felt more consistent .
i wont be trying the motor forward option as i feel the left to right balance wont be right as the left weight will be to far forward ! and there are otherways to get more steering . cheers gw

[gwesty]

pete , ive now tried the 38tooth pulleys at newbury and chippenham . against the 34s with the same set up the 38s feel easier to drive , carry more corner speed , and are loads smoother on power up ! , they dont have the bite 34s do tho so the car feels as it has less grip . with the 34s i feel that the car scrubs too much speed especially when the grip comes up ! i changed a few things at chippenham and the 2nd final the car was very good (until i pulled out !) the car was .3 faster on avarage lap too .
hth gw , also i will pm u to tell you what i changed for the 2nd final

[mark robinson]

Oct 20, 2009 16:39:02 GMT gwesty said:

also i will pm u to tell you what i changed for the 2nd final

Couldn't pm me that as well ah glen

[gwesty]

pm sent

[yellowshark]

Thanks for the update Glen Interesting comment on corner speed. The 008 came out with 2.125 IR or something like that. Then they brought out an upgrade to 1.7 to allow the higher gearing ratios for brushless. I had a long conversation with a team driver on the XRAY forum on the subject. At the time we were running 27T and his view was that the 2.125 would be better because it allowed more corner speed to be carried. Indeed the XRAY blurb had commented on the new ratio of 2.125 as being the optimum ratio for the car. I always meant to do a back to back but never did.

There was also the point that the bigger central pulley moved the belt away from the pinion and there were problems in the early days with the belt rubbing against the pinion. I got around that by having RW racing make me some pinions with a thinner shaft. But a lot of people moved to 1.7. then when got the 009 and went brushless I automatically tuned into a sheep and built it at 1.7

Ok that was the history lesson ;D But it suggests to me in retrospect that those earlier thoughts were right so I am not surprised as you moved away from 1.7 towards 2.125 that is what you experienced. Another little project forme on Friday night ;D

[yellowshark]

Have any of you guys used the spacers between the shock upper mounting and the shock tower? As I understand it makes the shock more perpendicular and better.
What I do not understand is that XRAY ship 1,2 & 3mm spacers - wondering why.
Does a 1mm spacer make it better and a 2mm more better and a 3mm more more better?

[darrenoakley]

I didn't think it was a spacer you used. With the 011 kit I they are plastic nuts so only one size to choose. Part number 308019 Set of Shock Shims & Nuts (not sure if this is front and back so may need 2 sets) mate

Tech Tip : from manual
To make the car more stable and easier to drive, move the front shocks forward. Stability increases
mainly in chicanes. Note that the car will have less steering into corners.
• Upper mount (shock tower): Add a plastic nut and use a longer screw 3x8mm (NOT INCLUDED)
to space the upper end of the shock away from the shock tower.
• Lower mount (lower arm): Add shims and use a longer setscrew 3x10mm (NOT INCLUDED) on
the lower arms to space the lower end of the shock away from the arm.

[yellowshark]

Assuming it is dry tonight we will have on display our new XRAY CNC machined alumininium shock spring retainers anodised in a beautiful orange.

[yellowshark]

Hi just to let you XRAY gear diff guys know that an upgrade is imminent..

The outdrive adapters will be made from hudy spring steel as option parts - #304971 (should be available within few weeks).

Can't wait ;D

[yellowshark]

I had a breeze through the 012 Instruction manual this evening which threw up some questions. I suspect they may be equally relevant to 011 build too, so hoping you might be able to give some comments (for asphalt at Bashley).


Thinking it through I have decided the only approach is to set the 012 up basically with kit settings and then do a lot of testing to try the changes that we made to the 009.

Shock oil weight: not sure if this applies to the 011 but on the 012 they have pushed the front springs to 3.0 (which is the first time I have seen an XRAY with kit settings of 2 steps between the front and rear springs. I am surprised that they did not push the front oil weight from 350 to 400 too. What have you guys done for Bashley? We run 2.8/2.6 with 350 allround


Ackerman: (think the 011 has the double servo link connection with shims to change the Ackerman?). The kit setup has one 1mm shim, so that is right at the end of the 0-5mm range (pretty much the same range as the 009, ie steps 0-5 but I have no idea if they are actually 1mm steps on the 009) and I read it as being on the 012 a high Ackerman setting, as the rods will be almost straight if I have the visualisation of the arms and the shims correct in my mind.
For us this is pretty extreme as we have always run the 009 on settings 2-4. In our experience more Ackermann makes the car more stable at Bashley but less Ackermann makes it faster in terms of lap speed. 5 is awesome around Bashley but it makes the rear too wild even for young Craig to turn fast lap times into fast race times. ;D
Just wondering what if anything you guys have done with the Ackerman setting on the 011/012.


Lower suspension blocks: I am somewhat confused by these. I see there is a fine tuning option to the roll centre by adding shims under the blocks. But the kit setting has zero shims which seems to make the fine adjustment only one way. Has anyone got their head around this.

[Reuben]

I wouldnt want to spoil your fun with the car, but Keep your springs and oils the same from your 009

I am running 35wt schumacher oil, 40 in peak of summer and yes I dropped the front spring down to 2.8 (advised another recent Xray purchaser to do the same). I also stiffen the rear to 2.8 to (but thats a personal preference and in my opinion the Xray 2011 runs best on matched springs).

Steering, I spent a few meetings playing with this and since then I remove the shims (the car has SO much grip you can take liberties with this) and have never put them back in.

with 1mm the car would wash through the double apex into the dog leg and at the end of the dog leg. But it did make the car more stable through Tyre and into bomb hole.

0mm the car would not wash at lower speeds but had the tendancy to snap-rotate at higher speeds...however since my cheeky top-deck modification to make it more like a 2012 top deck it made it awesome with 0mm.

[yellowshark]

Thanks for that Reuben. I sealed the bottom deck today and Craig has started the build.

1st irk was they have changed the steering and camber links so you need a 4mm (which we don't have) rather than a 3mm turnbuckle wrench; got over it for build but will need to get one

2nd irk is the list of tools includes a 3mm hex drive which we don't have; although not yet discovered what it is needed for.

3rd irk is a couple of the A arms sticking; there is a fix for this on the forum but I have been unable to access the forum for the past 48/72 hours; yes they have been reamed as necessary.

Isnt it nice to have everything tight with no slop ;D

Oh and I had bought a pair of the optional XRAY steel outdrives for the spool on the 009 so we fitted those.

[yellowshark]

Dec 30, 2011 22:31:45 GMT Reuben said:

with 1mm the car would wash through the double apex into the dog leg and at the end of the dog leg. But it did make the car more stable through Tyre and into bomb hole.

0mm the car would not wash at lower speeds but had the tendancy to snap-rotate at higher speeds...however since my cheeky top-deck modification to make it more like a 2012 top deck it made it awesome with 0mm.

Hi Reuben, just to be sure - are you referring to Ackermann or rear suspension holder shims here?

[Reuben]

ackermann man! Ive never bothered with the shims under the suspension holders - to much hassle

[yellowshark]

Well almost there; electronics on, servo funny resolved; just need to get it on the setup board and set the toe and steering angle, raise the ride height and compensate with the dropp to retain the same uplift - and a final check on camber angles etc. Using the kit setup except, 2.8 springs on the front

BUT

As you know I am a fan of XRAY, this is our 6th and as usual the quality meant the build went together with no problems or fettling.


There are though to my mind two incredibly stupid bits of design.

1. Unless I have done something really stupid, you cannot get the pinion off without taking off the top deck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The alternative is to take out the motor and remove the pinion - but then you have the issue of positioning the pinion to it aligns properly with the spur when you put the engin back in; you cannot move the pinion at all when the engine is fitted.

This is effing gobsmackingly insane - especially if like me you set your gap between pinion and spur by fitting a pinion with plus one tooth to get the gap then swap to the real pinion.

2. The antenna tube goes through the middle of the top deck!!!! To a mere mortal this may not be a problem but for those who like a tidy car and have the inch or two of protruding aerial wire tied against the tube with a cable tie - you can't get the top deck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The latter is an irritation and easily overcome by drilling another hole in chassis plate somewhere but so stupidly unnecessary

The former is well, I just hope Liam can point out what I have done wrong!!!!

[liampettit]

1. i dont know if the 009 has it is but there is a hole under chassis where you can put your driver tho to take the pinion off

2.i found it better with the arieal going tho the middle becuase it made my electrics so much neater

if you have any more problems i will be coming down the track if you need help with anything

[yellowshark]

Ah thanks Liam. For all the XRAYs from the TR1 to the 009, don't know about the T3 ("010"), you always go in through the top between the top deck fork at the rear end - never occurred to me to go in from underneath ;D. A bit like driving and English car all your life and then going into an American car and trying to change gear with the door handle - been there done that

[yellowshark]

Hated setting up the steering too You try to change the length of the servo lin kto get the wheels spot on equal at 0 trim and two popper type end connectors just come off.

Personally I think they have cut some corners on components with the new steering system to keep costs down - not up to their normal standard.

Mind you it wasn't helped by my no. 1 driver whom, I eventually worked out, had put the new style servo horn on back to front! Think I will build the T4 ;D

[Reuben]

Pete, how did you get on with the Xray today? I hope Craig enjoyed it, My 11 is absolutely outstanding to drive .

btw check out pg.27 (i think) in the manual, gives you a nice tip on how to attach a pinion .

and yes the steering is a direct copy from the 11 minus a lug.

[yellowshark]

Hi Reuben, err we didnt get on. Put it on the track, turn the steering full to the left and accelerate and it turns left. Do the same but steering right and it immediately does 360s.

Spent an hour or so trying to resolve it but failed and went home to the warm!

What I didnt realise at the time but when turning left, it starts to turn then a clicking sound comes on and it starts to straighten, even with the the steering on full lock; after about half a sec. the clicking stopped and it goes full left again.

I pulled the front axle and checked; the spool seemed fine as did the drive shafts. Everything looked right and symetrical and I could not diagnose any binding anywhere.

We had a new ball diff in the rear; I swapped that out and transferred the one from the 009 but that made no difference.

It was cold, no heat in the tyres or additive on, so doing 360s might be OK and it is the other way that is wrong. The immediate issue, for me, is that it is not symetrical. If both ways were doing 360s I could cope with that!!

[yellowshark]

Ok time for Gaian feedback loop to keep things simple

T3 '012 drivers, sick of fiddling with that poxy hole in the chassis to change your pinion.

Equally peed with the time wasted with the top deck to do it from the top.

Then I can answer your prayers and justifiably accuse you of being as thick as me (not very Gaian but I could not resist, sorry)

Undo the two motor mount screws, pull the motor with pinion. Job done!

Sorry it wasn't my intent to cause you to crawl into that dark corner in tears at not being that intelligent hot shot you always thought you were; I guess that's life.

If you already do it this way then shame on you for not publishing so and improving the Biosphere

[Reuben]

I quite like that little hole on the chassis, it makes tightening the pinion super easy?

you could say the same about the bumper and bodyposts getting in the way of the front shocks.... but im surprised you have never heard of ball-ended tips from EDS? you can attack the grub screw at any angle this way.

just make sure you have a decent grubb screw, problem solved

[yellowshark]

Lol Reuben, probably best that you don't post on the forum after a heavy nights drinking

[Mike V]

Hey guys, what's your view on the t3 2010 in comparison to a 2012? May have found a worthwhile buy if the '10 is worth it...