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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 29, 2010 12:40:42 GMT
Reuben and Matt followed the "slower car learning " way 18 months ago...now I cant shake the buggers of my Tail No no....its our tail your chassing . Ps I hope Taz hasnt learn't kill yet - otherwise im wearing a cup and shin-pads at the next meeting for my above comment ;D ;D..... ......Taz kill???....nah he's a lover not a fighter,but he has learned to wee in certain pit box's on command Ever heard of" lull'ed into a false sense of security" ...I still have some "on a mission speed" left when required,ask Matt he experienced some of it on Sunday ;)may I add it was'nt aimed at him though!
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Post by yellowshark on Mar 29, 2010 12:49:37 GMT
Blimey Matt where did that come from? It doesn’t bother me and I didn’t comment on where you race, although as you mention it, is does seem somewhat strange that a committee member would be representing another club in the SLCC club championship.
All I was doing was correcting your inference that regional drivers don’t support the club and as a regional driver we were proud that, for asphalt racing because that is what we race, we were currently one of the four drivers that have attended every championship race at the club this season.
We need to race at Eastbourne to get practice for the Juniors (hence our STCC entry) and at Aldershot to get practice for the SLCC and the Nats and as I said that may well dent our rankings.
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Post by Jazzler on Mar 29, 2010 18:17:45 GMT
as for peoples pace on sunday, there did seem a large gap between Jason, Martin C and Mike V. vs the rest of the 17.5 field. Now these guys are all running stock specs, using an Mi4lp and simlar setups from Kit (nothing NG). Now I know they have put a lot of track time down recently and over the winter getting use to their cars at the weight and gearing to get the most out of their combos (which has taken weeks of back to backing and Jason doing crazy gearings to find out whats working) and are all running at the 1350 weight - to which they are all getting results for, they are all sharing their info aswell which is in turn making them all quicker quickly. As you say Reuben, no one was running NG kit on Sunday, just the good'ol (Now reasonably priced for TC) Stock Spec for Me, Mike and Martin. I have to say, for me its been the track time and testing that's improved my driving. Its not been easy and I've put countless hours of (Crazy) gearing testing with surprising results.. not to mention the time I put in to improve my driving and lines turning up week by week. I also share my info with anyone that will listen, as I find that if other people improve with it too, then we all have much more fun and much closer racing. I'll adhere to whatever you guys decide, but lets not forget that the biggest separator between drivers isn't what gear they run, its how they drive it. Just look at how many stock spec's are in the club now, it doesn't make you fast 'Just like that'. You still have to work hard to do well.
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 29, 2010 21:45:19 GMT
it maybe something we should look at introducing into the stock class? plus people can still use a 27t with a brushed speedo - which may be slower for the top guys but a cheaper alternative for newer racers. Rebuild-able 27t brushed motors are dead and buried Reubs.Even if the Ansman 15t motor only lasted 6 or so meetings it would still be way way cheaper at £7 a motor than a rebuild-able 27t + brush sets and skims. Committee correct me If I am wrong please ,I think the current ruling for our TC stock class is any commercially available 27t brushed and 17.5 brushless motors, this would then make some of the Ansman sealed 540 range illegal ?? Should this rule be correct could it possibly be amended to allow any sealed 540's...should they prove to have the "cheap speed"
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 31, 2010 6:54:28 GMT
No committee input then?? on an Idea that may help a new driver cheaply into TC's.....fair enough
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Neil
At the Thermometer
SHMCC Committee Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Neil on Mar 31, 2010 7:31:57 GMT
hi les will bring your suggestion up a next meeting (tuesday).always up for new ideas to be discussed, if you have any further suggestions on this topic please pm me thanks neil
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Post by oldtimeracer on Mar 31, 2010 7:46:03 GMT
I know where you are coming from Les and the need for a cheaper class is known. However I would have thought a fixed brushless set up at a nominal price would have been a better bet as it then means there is no maintenance, no worries and gets people used to brushless systems.
The cost of a brushed speedo is probably £35 and a motor £15? roughly? A fixed set up brushless 17.5 system like the one used for the SPC Cup is around £80/90. OK double the price maybe but no need for any updates, changes or new motors for a while.
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 31, 2010 8:58:26 GMT
I know where you are coming from Les and the need for a cheaper class is known. However I would have thought a fixed brushless set up at a nominal price would have been a better bet as it then means there is no maintenance, no worries and gets people used to brushless systems. The cost of a brushed speedo is probably £35 and a motor £15? roughly? A fixed set up brushless 17.5 system like the one used for the SPC Cup is around £80/90. OK double the price maybe but no need for any updates, changes or new motors for a while. Yep thats cheap Ian ....I was thinking more for the lads in the Ansmans class who alredy have the speedos and may want to progress onto a race chassis cheaply...Chris Day is just about to buy a race chassis(MI4) but as the rules stand at the moment he wont be even allowed to run his Ansmans motor(23t??)in stock should he wish too... I quickly put a 23t Ansman in my old Cyclone and ran it down my road last night....It surprised me!...Im itching to test the 15t
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Post by Reuben on Mar 31, 2010 9:11:07 GMT
I know where you are coming from Les and the need for a cheaper class is known. However I would have thought a fixed brushless set up at a nominal price would have been a better bet as it then means there is no maintenance, no worries and gets people used to brushless systems. The cost of a brushed speedo is probably £35 and a motor £15? roughly? A fixed set up brushless 17.5 system like the one used for the SPC Cup is around £80/90. OK double the price maybe but no need for any updates, changes or new motors for a while. Yep thats cheap Ian ....I was thinking more for the lads in the Ansmans class who alredy have the speedos and may want to progress onto a race chassis cheaply...Chris Day is just about to buy a race chassis(MI4) but as the rules stand at the moment he wont be even allowed to run his Ansmans motor(23t??)in stock should he wish too... I quickly put a 23t Ansman in my old Cyclone and ran it down my road last night....It surprised me!...Im itching to test the 15t Im sure if Chris turned up and went to use his Stock Chassis with an Ansmann combo, assuming it had no advantage over a 17.5 then he would be able to race it under race directors approval/descision. As its always been - a little lee-way in the rules to get people on the track with their gear. We have had people using silver-cans and sealed turn motors before I know, ive booked them in - they havent had any advantage in speed and usually ability holds them back from pushing it any further. agreed there should be a sealed turn limit for stock - the next progression from eco - if the driver wants. But with the range of sealed can motors out there, who can say that a HPI 15t = a Ansmann 15t ? So do we keep it to a ansmann clash again? or allow any sealed can below a certain wind?
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 31, 2010 9:31:00 GMT
Yep thats cheap Ian ....I was thinking more for the lads in the Ansmans class who alredy have the speedos and may want to progress onto a race chassis cheaply...Chris Day is just about to buy a race chassis(MI4) but as the rules stand at the moment he wont be even allowed to run his Ansmans motor(23t??)in stock should he wish too... I quickly put a 23t Ansman in my old Cyclone and ran it down my road last night....It surprised me!...Im itching to test the 15t Im sure if Chris turned up and went to use his Stock Chassis with an Ansmann combo, assuming it had no advantage over a 17.5 then he would be able to race it under race directors approval/descision. As its always been - a little lee-way in the rules to get people on the track with their gear. We have had people using silver-cans and sealed turn motors before I know, ive booked them in - they havent had any advantage in speed and usually ability holds them back from pushing it any further. agreed there should be a sealed turn limit for stock - the next progression from eco - if the driver wants. But with the range of sealed can motors out there, who can say that a HPI 15t = a Ansmann 15t ? So do we keep it to a ansmann clash again? or allow any sealed can below a certain wind? Maybe Im too forward thinking,but this seems to make perfect sence to me,especially for someone like Chris.He can race with a car that will be a little faster even with his old Ansman motor/speedo combo, and be easier to drive! a perfect way to "learn the roaps" plus a simple way to upgrade to the 15t or even a secondhand 27t untill he gets used to the speeds and set ups..Basicaly little (£7 for a motor)or no cost for ellectrics to race his new drive. As for sealed can rules???..why?what sealed can Ansman/Black can 540 is going to be faster than a 17.5/NG..or even the old stock spec.? Keep any add on rule to our stock class simple :ie any 540 size sealed motor....or is there some wicked sealed unit that we dont know about
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Post by justchris on Mar 31, 2010 10:22:17 GMT
The reason for upgrading from Ansmann to a better car was not because I believe I am a better driver already - the idea of doing this was so I could race elsewhere (other places don't allow Ansmann - e.g. SLCC). My idea and theory behind this was the more I drove, the more I would learn and the quicker my ability would improve (not slowly worse as Sunday just gone!). It's not my intention to cause any trouble in the different classes - my limited knowledge doesn''t even allow me to truly know the difference between the classes. As I say, my idea is to learn by getting as much experience as I can in as many places as I can and the only way I can see to do this outside SHMCC is to get the other car. I hope this helps.
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 31, 2010 10:30:21 GMT
Unless there is a wicked sealed unit out there thats going to blow away a 17.5 I cant see any problem,any new driver regardless of motor power will get in the way/be slower than the faster guy....I still say a 15t sealed unit wont be slow enough to irritate people...only bad track etiquette does that! Theres no need to complicate things...this is so simple to do and try ....Im just trying to avoid someone moaning and quoting the current stock rules should they be passed by a 15t sealed can...and some one is bound too. Bloody hell...I give up thinking about new drivers and their expence
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Post by oldtimeracer on Mar 31, 2010 10:37:59 GMT
I cant think of any either Les.
I have no objection to a sealed can class in fact it may encourage me back into TC as there is no way I can afford to be competitive in a brushless class. However my point is where do they run. As a seperate class or with one of the others?
I am not sure Chris is correct in saying he could not run the Ansmann in SLCC or indeed any other TC meeting. He would be very underpowered but I cant think of a regulation that would stop him racing.
However there does need to be a class above Ansmann and below 17.5 unlimited class. There should not be a need for this but the technology and expense of stock classes these days means there will need to be. Shame really.
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Post by oldtimeracer on Mar 31, 2010 10:39:49 GMT
Oh it would be fun to pass a 17.5 racer if you were using a sealed can motor at half the cost! My sort of fun that is. Bound to be trouble if you did!
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Post by martinchallis on Mar 31, 2010 10:51:08 GMT
Back in the day I raced stock with a 27 turn motor, I did very little maintenance to it, and as a result I was never the fastest. But as racer I enjoyed myself. I was completely aware that if I didn’t spend the money, & put the time in I would never be the best, as I’m sure the guys down at Lotus F1 are aware the same applies to them.
I think we are missing the point here and could be heading towards a knee jerk reaction to an old issue made new.
As the summer season comes towards us classes will fill up, and a natural grid order develops, based on a mixture of ability, wallet size, and time invested in setup. The people that will be able to exploit the true potential of Gen3 gear have been racing for years, and I hope get more enjoyment out of close racing, rather than thrashing club racers by 2 laps. A good example was Graham Staples – Stick me in with 13.5 lads, this will knock your socks off! (ok maybe not his words exactly!)
Perhaps a gentlemen’s agreement would suffice in regard to the moderation of Gen 3 equipment.
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Post by lesbaldry on Mar 31, 2010 12:12:30 GMT
Sorry to use you as an example Chris..But the current trend with ESC's and motors may seem confusing, expensive and necessary to a new driver,this is not the case! they are not!! especially while one is learning to drive.All I am trying to do is find a cheap alternative that will work, give reasonable forgiving easy power and speed to work with at our track,but it seems some are bent on confusing and complicating a very simple alternative even befor its tried.
I think a 15t sealed 540 will have plenty of top speed,enough not to be a hazard on the strait but will have smooth " corner exit" power..A green/new driver will have problems copeing with the botom end torque of a 17.5.
A £35 Podium ESC,a £7 15t 540, thats desent learning power for under 40 quid with club disco.
I have heard similar moans/issues regarding motors when myself and Ian Lloyde pioneered the 17.5 at our track 2 years ago.
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