Any network gurus out there?

[yellowshark]

Hi guys, I am hoping that there are some modem/router wizzes out there that can help me.
It is time to upgrade the home network, which is predominantly wireless although Craig’s PS3 above the garage (20 yards away) is wired, using one of those plug systems that routes over the electrical house wiring.
The current ADSL modem/router is an old BT homehub which does not support the N standard, nor indeed have other nice gizmos such as guest network access.
I have been looking at Linksys/Netgear/Belkin products and within the units I have shortlisted there are two routers which do not have a modem. This is where my knowledge falters.
Can I simply attach a router to my old Homehub with an Ethernet cable and take it from there. IE will the Homehub just pass the signal through to a wired router without any degradation? Or do I need a new super modem too? (if I went for one of these routers tha does not have a built in modem)

Also reading through millions of comments from people reviewing products, who of course may be simple IT dumbos, I read some issues with IP address difficulties with a separate modem and router; ie the router could not see the Internet because of its IP address (inference being that the setup system had not got this right). This has for me with a router/modem always happened automatically.
Any comments would be welcome, as would any votes for particular products (and comments on Netgear reliability?)
My shorlist is
Linksys E4200
Linksys X3000
Netgear DGND3700 (aka N600)
Netgear DR4500 (akaN900) – at £199 that is drooling rather than buying
Belkin Play N600 (or Max Play)

BTW I installed an old Belkin yesterday which does support the N standard, which was fine except that the PS3 started to suffer from packet fragmentation problems which looking at forums seems to be quite common. I played around with the MTU figure but ended up going back to the Homehub

So PS3 compatibility is vital amongst all this

[Jazzler]

Hi Pete,

If it was my money, I would be buying the Linksys E4200 out of your list. With its 400Mbps Wireless, and 4 port Gigabit Ethernet ports. While your there, get some nice new Cat 6 cable to go with it for any wired devices you might use.

Linksys is owned by Cisco, making it the muts nuts in my opinion.

Netgear is good, but I don't like their interface and the build quality is a bit naff on the home products. That being said, the Netgear ProSafe range designed for business is a different ball game. Very good quality, but usually with a price tag to match, also needs to be hidden as they are not the prettiest for the home.

Belkin is like the Dyson of the routers. Lots of Bling, Jargon and Fancy Diagrams on the box, but the products tend to be inferior and not last as long as the Netgear and Linksys products I've used in the past.

With regards to needing a modem or not, that's debatable, personally I use a new style home hub as my router (Gateway to the internet), and run a single ethernet cable from it to a Netgear ProSafe Gigabit switch. As my switch is unmanaged, I let the homehub do the dhcp (So this assigns the local IP addresses dynamically across my network), as well as using it as a firewall and for port forwarding etc.

However from your description of what you have/intend to get, I would use the following setup:

HomeHub - Use as a Gateway only, disable any WiFi on it and connect a single ethernet cable to the internet port on the shiney Linksys E4200, or whatever you decide on. Then set the homehub to forward ALL traffic to the E4200, and disable DHCP on it.

Then use the E4200 for connecting any wired devices via ethernet (Preferably Cat6 but Cat5 would work fine, just might not make the most of the gigabit switch in the E4200).

Also set the E4200 to handle the DHCP (Dynamic Assigning of IP Addresses), and and port forwarding you might want (If any).

If you can run a cat6 cable to Craig's PS3 from the E4200 rather than a powerline adaptor, then as the PS3 supports Gigabit networking, then it will likely be more than 10 times faster and a lot more reliable (Not susceptible to power spikes when turning lights on/off, relays switching on and off etc.)

Otherwise the powerline would work fine, just don't use more than 1 pair of Powerline adaptors in your network, otherwise it will seriously reduce how well it works.

If your existing homehub is adsl+ compatible, and your line is too, then there should not really be a need to get a new modem. But if its old enough to be just adsl, then you might benefit from upgrading either the homehub to a router with a modem, or getting the E4200 or something, and a seperate modem then getting your isp to upgrade your line to make it adsl+ (A few if's there but worth looking out for

Finally no matter how convenient it is to have your modem plugged into a spare phone socket in the corner of the living room or wherever it might be. DON'T DO IT! make sure its connected to the MAIN phone line to the house, with as short a cable as possible.

That's my opinion anyway, others may disagree..

[Mike V]

I wholeheartedly agree with you jas - my home hub 2.0 with wireless N works great (although I'd like the new one now due to it being smaller and having a gigabit port on it).

I like your plan of forwarding all traffic to the router - that may stop the ps3 issues I would think?

I would go linksys over Netgear any day. Cisco equipment is rock solid!

[Jazzler]

Nov 15, 2011 1:33:34 GMT Mike V said:

I like your plan of forwarding all traffic to the router - that may stop the ps3 issues I would think?

Yeah that was my thoughts, basiclly use the homehub simply for the 'Unfiltered' internet connection and thats it. Then use the new Linksys to manage the rest of the network and do all the clever stuff.

Oh looks like i forgot to mention in my first post, this may have been obvious, but just in case: Use the Linksys as the firewall and for wireless.

Worst case scenario you could assign the ps3 onto the dmz giving it effective wide open internet access, but i would keep that as a last resort really.

[yellowshark]

Thanks for the info & help Jason & Mike. A few follow up points/questions.
1. Subsequent to my post, ie in the early hours of this morning! I had pretty much put the E4200 at the top of my list – so clearly that is now a decision made!

2. I think I have Homehub 1.5 – there is no indication on the box itself. One thing is for sure it does not support the N standard and I assume the Ethernet connections (2 of)are 10/100. My local line has been upgraded to ADSL 2+. I am some way away from the BT Exchange. My IP profile is 13mbps + change and I am seeing say 7-9 mbps on download although the iPlayer meter has hit 10-11 but I am not sure how accurate that is.

3. So although leaving the HH there would be the cheaper option I am thinking I would not be maximising my speed into my home network?

4. One box I discovered last night was the D-Link ADSL2+ modem (£30) which made great store about it was actually a bridge and passed the IP address from the ISP straight through to the router so that there was no fudging of IP addresses etc etc and everything was controlled direct by the router – which quite appealed to me (it seemed elegant). There does not seem to be any setting on my HH that will switch the wireless off and just let the box sit there as a modem – but I do have options for playing around with DHCP.

5. ThePS3 has to go over the mains wiring – the alternative is a large bill to dig up the garden and lay an Ethernet cable across the lawn! Our current Devolo plugs are rated at 85mbps but I think they do new ones rated at 400 – not cheap though! But Craig seems to be happy with the current operation – then again you would be happy with an Audi R8 if you had not driven a Murcielago


6. Does the PS3 support 5ghz? – I could not find any setting that changed this.

[yellowshark]

..... and

I dug a bit deeper into the D-link modem spec and discovered that the Ethernet connection is 10/100. That got me thinking; I am not internally transmitting any significant amount of data between devices – my entire focus is really just speed from the Inet to any one device. (and wireless strength/range has a strong impact on this too). The biggest hitters being PS3 & Modern Warfare 3 and HD TV programs from iPlayer to the home cinema system.

EG the PS3 may support gigabit Ethernet but if my Internet speed is 7-9mbps so what.

I suspect that in fact my easiest solution is to just buy a HH3 – no d**n spec info on the BT site though, it doesn’t even quote the speed of the 4 Ethernet connections.


But there are some functions that the 4200, or indeed the Linksys X3000, offer that would be useful.

2 separate networks so I can use Ethernet over mains plugs to the PS3 and to the home cinema system (although an improved wireless signal internally would probably remove the benefit of using Ethernet to the home cinema system). But does my Home cinema or PS3 support 5ghz I wonder

Guest network – in reality only useful twice a year!

DLNA server – really useful as at the moment my DLNA server is my laptop so it has to be on all the time

Is the 4200 a DLNA server? The advertising does not use those words but I think UPnP and DLNA are basically the same?

[Jazzler]

Hi Pete,

Reading your situation, I think there are some thing to consider.

If your line is already adsl+ and the HH you have connects to this fine, then you are unlikely to benefit from a new modem.

The fact that the home hub (Or any modem you look at) only has a 1/100 connection is not a problem, if you are using it as the connection to the internet ONLY.

The reason for this is simple, the internet connection speed is the bottlekneck here. Unless your internet speed is over 100Mbps then you will not need more than that in the modem.

The 100Mbps connection from the Modem to lets say the 4200, will mean there is no bottlekneck there within your control.


Your point 4. about using a modem as a bridge, is essentially what I meant about getting the HH to forward ALL traffic to the 4200. The ISP (BT) will allocate your home with a dynamic IP address, which will be picked up by the HH. The HomeHub then uses its routing capability (A router connects 2 networks together, i.e. the ISP's network to your Local network). This is then passed from the HH into the 4200 giving the 4200 full control over everything.

However if you can't disable wireless on your HH then this might be a pain, as we wouldnt want it to cause a conflict with the wireless on the 4200. In which case then yes it might be worth getting a dedicated NON wireless ADSL+ modem instead of the HH, as long as it can forward all the data.

Then again, what N wireless devices do you actually have right now?


My personal preference would be to get the D-Link modem, as it will likely have a more customisable interface than the HomeHub, and get the 4200.



The main benefit you will see here is from using Gigabit ethernet to the wired devices, and N wireless to any N rated wireless devices you have.

The PS3 unfortunately does not support N rated wireless, so i'd forget that idea, and strongly suggest ditching at least 1 set of powerline adaptors and just running 1 set.

I have set which I use to connect an Xbox360 which I use as a media centre extender.. (If you want to get really clever with your media let me and/or Mike know as we both have some pretty geeky Home Theatre PC's you might like to copy), anyway I did lots of enstensive tesing on the powerline adaptors and found that 1 pair rated at 200Mbps, running in the room next door will give about 75Mbps actual speeds, which is only JUST enough to support true Live HD broadcasting over Ethernet from my Media Centre.

As soon as I added another pair it did make it more stable, i.e. losing less packets, BUT at the expense of halfing the connection speed of each device. Rendering it useless for HD streaming over the network. What happens is there is a sender and can be multiple receivers, and the sender tries to allocate its bandwith evenly between the receivers, and unless you could setup QOS on them, using more than 1 pair is a bad idea.

Unfortunately I have no choice but to use them there as I am currently renting and am not allowed to drill holes or lay cables under the floor boards etc, but this is the only limitation of my network, and the Xbox doesnt max out 1 pair on its own (Although does suffer from a slower ping rate and minor packet loss compared to ethernet cables).



Does your Home Cinema system have a Gigabit port? Good question, find out!, hopefully the answer is yes, in which case 'Use It', there is no point spending any money trying to upgrade the network if you are going to have bottleknecks.



If you are planning on using a DNLA server, or already do, then you will hugely benefit from using Gigabit networking.


Maybe we need to go up the pub with a pen, paper and a few beers to discuss...?


My advise, dig up the garden or run a long cable around the outside edges. Dig the hole yourself so its not too expensive (You can get Shielded Cat6 cable quite cheaply which should be fine for this, or maybe Darren O could best advise on getting the wiring sorted?).

Do it properly without the bottleknecks and outlay some money now, with the view to having something that will last a good few years before needing any upgrades.


If you don't plan it and get it right, you could well, end up spending lots of money but ending up with a network no better than it is now.

[yellowshark]

Hi, I think we have arrived at the same conclusion Jason. I was reading a review of the E 4200 on PCPro mag. site this afternoon and after their lab tests they hooked it up to real World things including a PS3 AND they connected it to the internet with the D-Link modem I was considering. Job done, if it is good enough for them it is good enough for me! All very good reports on performance and stability
So with Amazon having 1 left in stock my order went in and I will pick an E4200 up from PC World probably Thursday.

I think everything bar the PS3 supports the N standard. The Sony BDP does not mention this anywhere but it supports WPS and the WPA & WPA2 security functions - all of which are N standard only things?

I will defer my decision on how best to incorporate the PS3 and where to have that beer ! once I have the kit installed and see what difference that makes to everything. Thanks again for your help

[Jazzler]

Sounds good to me. Oh and I'm pretty sure the Sony BDP's are mostly if not all N rated for wireless.

[yellowshark]

Up and running. ;D The D-Link modem was easy, just ran the standard software setup and then changed the connectivity from PPoA to Bridged mode.

The E4200 was pretty easy too, same approach but I missed changing one of the parameters to match the Bridged mode of the modem, which had me scratching my head for 30mins before I spotted it.

DLNA service is great, I can now serve the Home Cinema system with my iTunes database without needing a PC involved. Just had to point the router to the appropriate folder on the attached usb drive and that was it.

Speed is substantially faster – but is clearly variable depending on the wireless adaptor in any given device – my older Dell laptop is not as good as Jen’s new HP or the new Sony BDP – not something I had really spotted before.

Strength of 5ghz signal is disappointing although on a very quick test it did show marginally faster than 2.4 but needs a thorough test to be sure.

Frozen Planet HD was running on the Sony BDP at 10-11mbps, awesome; averaged 2.5-3.0 on my old Dell ()

It would be interesting to try it against a HomeHub 3.

And PS3 running fine.

[Jazzler]

That's great news Pete.