ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 13, 2011 10:28:51 GMT
OK so help me out here PLEASE !!!!
Not having been much in touch with brushless for a while I am not 100% sure what the 17.5 Blinky class actually comprises of.
I am assuming from what I have read that it is in fact exactly what we were all running some years ago. For example on the BRCA list it says I can still use my LRP SPHERE speedo and any 17.5 brushless motor. I seem to remember that you can manually adjust the timing on the motors so is this permissable? Also I remember there was a significant difference between motors or at least there always was but maybe this has changed?
So is this class really a step back to what 17.5 was before timing speedos?
Is it the same as it was then with having to play with motor timing and different motors to be competitive?
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 13, 2011 12:12:22 GMT
Hi Ian
In most ways yes. The difference is though, certainly as far as the BRCA is concerned, is that not all old speedos are allowed. IE you must be able to turn the timing totally off. So whilst I have been running Ross with Craig's old ISTC, this is not BRCA legal (at least in 1/12th)I assume because it has modes and they cannot be turned off. Indeed our old Sphere, version 1, is also illegal; with the version 2 Sphere you can turn the modes off. I have not seen anything in the BRCA rules on motor timing so I assume that yes that can be adjusted - all manufacrers have a different level of timing at the zero point anyway!!
I only discovered this yesterday - there is a list of motors in the BRCAs 1/12 section - it is not clear to me if that is is 1/12 only or an electric board ruling for all classes.
I am in danger of shooting myself in the foot here because whilst I have proposed a non timing 17.5 car for the proposed Stock class I was assuming that it would be like we used to be with the old LRPs Nosrams etc. I am sure not going out to buy another speedo when I have two perfectly good non timing old generation speedos that we all used to use before timing speedo came along.
Coincidentally, in the middle of this, I have just spoken to Ian N. At Aldershot they are, at least for 2012, allowing the old ISTCs etc for the blinky class. I would prefer that we did this too until we can show that there is, or is not, an unfair advantage to be gained.
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Post by Reuben on Dec 13, 2011 12:55:07 GMT
Blinky 17.5 essentially means no timing.
however this is a bit of a cop out when you can just adjust the timing on the motor.
I think we should be a little relaxed with this too and allow the Sphere TC / Novak GTB / Losi Excelliron to be used.
These ESC's all have some static timing advancee (much like adjusting the timing endbell on a brushless motor).
its also a mess as each motor at stock timing has different amounts of timing per brand also. So restricting rules on ESC away from the Sphere seems a bit like a waste of effort when you can just turn up the end bell a bit?
The main thing with this is to remove Dynamic timing and boost..
so no StockSpecs / SXX stock specs / boost escs (unless in blinky mode).
and Yes Ian it will be like the old very first 17.5 days.
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 13, 2011 13:51:17 GMT
I guess it is too early yet to find a list of Blinky approved esc's from the BRCA for touring cars yet. I can find the 1/12th list and that shows the LRP SPHERE as being legal. Obviously I do not know if the same list will apply to 17.5 touring cars.
However I tend to agree with the sentiment that some leeway should be given to make it easier for all concerned although it does appear to be the same can of worms we had when we had 17.5 before timing escs were invented. In that I mean the difference in performance of some motors to others, how much you can push the mechanical timing before you burn out the motor etc etc.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 13, 2011 14:47:45 GMT
I do not think Ian that you can get away from that particular set of worms if you want to run 17.5 brushless - the engine timing on all those motors is adjustable.
Having said that I have setup Ross's car with an FDR of around 3.6 which Les suggested a couple of years ago as a starting point; the ISTC is set on the standard stock mode and in fact I am pretty sure I have reduced the Nosram's motor timing as they are notorious for being over timed on the factory setting. I would be happy to move the speedo mode to another setting if there was a concensus as to what was the Nosram's "weakest" mode.
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Post by miffed on Dec 13, 2011 15:01:48 GMT
However I tend to agree with the sentiment that some leeway should be given to make it easier for all concerned although it does appear to be the same can of worms we had when we had 17.5 before timing escs were invented. In that I mean the difference in performance of some motors to others, how much you can push the mechanical timing before you burn out the motor etc etc. There will always be speed difference's regardless of Motor!...Cells play a big part too!. A racer using a top of the range chassis will always have an advantage over say an Ansman,so where do you draw the line/rules here? And yes a brushless motor has always had the option to adjust the static timing and alter the gearing to suit,even some of the so called fixed timing makes could be altered with some minor engineering to the sensor plate(Losi)...And yes there is the risk of cooking the motor.....But the same can be said for the sealed can motor.I seem to remember quite a few over geared Eco motors "trailing smoke" down the strait I feel a open 10th class with a motor limit will allow those who are happy runing what they want for the sake of fun and the more serious racer/pot hunter will naturaly gravitate towards the fastest combination that suits his pocket (when he gets beat ).....If people want equal speeds then there IS only one way to go!....A chassis price and Cells limit,Controle tyres with hand out motors with a fixed FDR....Boring and not at all practical The bottom line is there will always be a "moan".. any one of us can "pick holes" in any class... But its all about getting drivers back to the track,unfortunatly you cant please everyone Ps an Ostrich with its head in the sand never see's the "kick up the bottom" coming
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 13, 2011 15:56:15 GMT
Oh I know Pete/Les and all I am trying to do is clear up exactly what this class means.
I thought it was almost exactly as we used to run and it seems I was right. Not a complaint just a confirmation really.
Hopefully will be doing a bit more racing next year than I have this and need to decide what class to run in so need to know what the choices are.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 13, 2011 18:16:04 GMT
Hopefully will be doing a bit more racing next year than I have this and need to decide what class to run in so need to know what the choices are. That is good news Ian; vote for Reuben's proposal and you won't have to waste time deciding what class to run!! ;D Les is of course right and surely half the fun is working on your car to setup the chassis and the powertrain to get more speed so if you are not at the top and you want to be, you can do something about it. Perish the day when there is no place for judgement on what to change given the prevailing circumstances We could even be really innovative and have one Sunday per month where we only race one class ie the new combined Stock class - the only potential issue - and it would be a big one - would be if any of the Open TC drivers did not have a speedo that could be set to blinky. If that were the case I think it would be unfair to make such a move at such short notice
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 8:56:23 GMT
Hopefully will be doing a bit more racing next year than I have this and need to decide what class to run in so need to know what the choices are. We could even be really innovative and have one Sunday per month where we only race one class ie the new combined Stock class - the only potential issue - and it would be a big one - would be if any of the Open TC drivers did not have a speedo that could be set to blinky. If that were the case I think it would be unfair to make such a move at such short notice That's a super thought Pete....and in a perfect world?? IMHO and only a personal view I think the perfect class for the size and condition of SHMCC's out door track is 17.5 boosted,but this Wind seems to be abandoned by the clubs faster drivers?? PLEASE don't missunderstand this and I do fully understand the need to race with a more powerfull Wind for some people,but to put this to a "scale of tracks" 13.5 at Bashley is equal to running a Mod at Mendip....Even as an experienced driver this does not enthuse me at all for other reasons other than just the speed for club days ....And yes I know that the lap times are very close between the two but ones easier for the newby to drive on the present track condition having less wear and not so critical for set up!!.....This must weigh up in some racers minds?? and possibly put one or two newby drivers off from the faster class's?? I know when I was learning the ropes nothing pleased me more or made me try harder was when I was racing along side a clubs faster drivers.There is no way you can expect a newby to run a 13.5 and enjoy it,after all new drivers look up to and expect sound advise from the faster elite....So come on you "faster drivers" drop down from the faster class's,run a slower class and take some time out to help and race with the new driver as people once did for you! for the memberships sake....or is it to late now Club days should be for fun! Fun for all to enjoy so hopefully SHMCC's members and committee will chose a sensible stock/pro eco class that will bring the fun back.... AND a few more members Good luck with the AGM tonight Ps Oh and Ian L,some of the best fun racing ive had was with you and Terry in Pro-eco....but this class does need a little more speed
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Post by wessex88 on Dec 14, 2011 9:10:48 GMT
Oh and Ian L,some of the best fun racing ive had was with you and Terry in Pro-eco....but it does need a little more speed
Unfortunately the proposal to be voted on does nothing to alter the pro-eco cars.I believe that You have tested sealed can motors against blinkin brushless and can up with the firebolt as motor to create a reasonably level playing field.
It would appear those responsible for the proposal were oblivious to freely available information/experiance of one ostrich bottom kicker.
I am not against a combined class but there does need to be a reasonably level playing field.
Rant finished. I need to collect some toys from the floor.
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 14, 2011 9:44:18 GMT
Well on a personal note I would also like (as I have said several times) to have a bit more speed in the Pro Eco class and the 15t Firebold appears to be just what is required. However if the Eco and Pro Eco are left alone (I believe the Eco at least should be left alone) and the 15t Firebolt is run in stock with the blinking 17.5 brushless then I reckon I will be doing stock next year.
I worry about the 17.5 blinky class because I can remember all the work we did before on 17.5 non timing speedo classes to make them go faster whereas running a sealed can 15t motor is, in my opinion, a real playing field leveller.
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Post by wessex88 on Dec 14, 2011 9:47:58 GMT
Under the current proposal to be voted on tonight the 15t motor would be run in the open tc class.
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 14, 2011 9:51:45 GMT
I think that was more a "misinterpretation" rather than a deliberate ploy Paul. Stock should have read "down to a 15t" I reckon.
However we will no doubt find out later.
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 9:53:15 GMT
Oh and Ian L,some of the best fun racing ive had was with you and Terry in Pro-eco....but it does need a little more speed Unfortunately the proposal to be voted on does nothing to alter the pro-eco cars.I believe that You have tested sealed can motors against blinkin brushless and can up with the firebolt as motor to create a reasonably level playing field. It would appear those responsible for the proposal were oblivious to freely available information/experiance of one ostrich bottom kicker. I am not against a combined class but there does need to be a reasonably level playing field. Rant finished. I need to collect some toys from the floor. Paul all I suggested in the beginning was for the club to consider and take a look at the 15t for pro-eco,one or two of the lads were blowing up the current motor on a regular basis and I felt the class could do with a little more speed ,Opening up the ESC rule would also help with any overheating motor issues too...Basically make life easier and hopefully cause an interest for other drivers as a fun class! The testing of 15t/17.5 Blinky is nothing to do with me,its information from me after seeing the two motors run together over a period of 3 months by extremely experienced drivers that I fully respect on a known "power track"....so this info is not guess work from a relative newby that's never even run a 15t let alone 17.5 Blinky A reasonably Level playing field : The suggestion of theses motors is purely a motor limit that at this current time are a very close match,meaning the 15t is affordable for the current Pro-eco newby but will also allow the more experienced racer with some of the older gear drop down to this enjoyable class with his 17.5. The governing factors of any motor class are going to be ability,chassis,setup etc etc.....As I posted earlier,where do you draw the line with rules? example, you enjoy running your trusty old Tamiya? but you cant expect to be as fast as another racer with his "state of the art " latest chassis with front and rear gear diffs on brand new rubber and Cells can you?.....so whether X motor is very slightly faster than Y motor is irrelevant here! The club may as well start to embrace the lower powered brushless combos....As one "non Ostrich" wisely posted earlier some of the RTR cars now have them as STD...what would the club do if a new racer turns up with one??
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Post by wessex88 on Dec 14, 2011 10:04:15 GMT
Oh and Ian L,some of the best fun racing ive had was with you and Terry in Pro-eco....but it does need a little more speed Unfortunately the proposal to be voted on does nothing to alter the pro-eco cars.I believe that You have tested sealed can motors against blinkin brushless and can up with the firebolt as motor to create a reasonably level playing field. It would appear those responsible for the proposal were oblivious to freely available information/experiance of one ostrich bottom kicker. I am not against a combined class but there does need to be a reasonably level playing field. Rant finished. I need to collect some toys from the floor. Paul all I suggested in the beginning was for the club to consider and take a look at the 15t for pro-eco,one or two of the lads were blowing up the current motor on a regular basis and I felt the class could do with a little more speed ,Opening up the ESC rule would also help with any overheating motor issues too...Basicaly make life easier and hopefully cause an interest for other drivers as a fun class! The testing of 15t/17.5 Blinky is nothing to do with me,its information from me after seeing the two motors run together over a period of 3 months by extremely experienced driver that I fully respect on a known "power track"....so this info is not guess work from a relative newby thats never even run a 15t let alone 17.5 Blinky A reasonably Level playing field : The suggestion of theses motors is purely a motor limit that at this current time are a very close match,meaning the 15t is affordable for the current Pro-eco newby but will also allow the more experienced racer with some of the older gear drop down to this enjoyable class with his 17.5. The governing factors of any motor class are going to be ability,chassis,setup etc etc.....As I posted earlier,where do you draw the line with rules? example, you enjoy running your trusty old Tamiya? but you cant expect to be as fast as another racer with his "state of the art " latest chassis with front and rear gear diffs on brand new rubber and Cells can you?.....so whether X motor is very slightly faster than Y motor is irrelevant here! As I value Your opinion Les.Would,in Your opinion, a 21t ansmann be on par with a blinkin brushless 17.5. I am well aware of my shortcomings regarding set up/driving abilities but there is nothing more frustrating than being out horsepowered.
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 10:19:49 GMT
Paul all I suggested in the beginning was for the club to consider and take a look at the 15t for pro-eco,one or two of the lads were blowing up the current motor on a regular basis and I felt the class could do with a little more speed ,Opening up the ESC rule would also help with any overheating motor issues too...Basicaly make life easier and hopefully cause an interest for other drivers as a fun class! The testing of 15t/17.5 Blinky is nothing to do with me,its information from me after seeing the two motors run together over a period of 3 months by extremely experienced driver that I fully respect on a known "power track"....so this info is not guess work from a relative newby thats never even run a 15t let alone 17.5 Blinky A reasonably Level playing field : The suggestion of theses motors is purely a motor limit that at this current time are a very close match,meaning the 15t is affordable for the current Pro-eco newby but will also allow the more experienced racer with some of the older gear drop down to this enjoyable class with his 17.5. The governing factors of any motor class are going to be ability,chassis,setup etc etc.....As I posted earlier,where do you draw the line with rules? example, you enjoy running your trusty old Tamiya? but you cant expect to be as fast as another racer with his "state of the art " latest chassis with front and rear gear diffs on brand new rubber and Cells can you?.....so whether X motor is very slightly faster than Y motor is irrelevant here! As I value Your opinion Les.Would,in Your opinion, a 21t ansmann be on par with a blinkin brushless 17.5. I am well aware of my shortcomings regarding set up/driving abilities but there is nothing more frustrating than being out horsepowered. I know what you are saying Paul ,so would I regardless of my ability....Now!where's that bloody Olly Jefferies lol.... Dont "Knock" your self Paul its Clubies like you that keep clubs going and should be looked after!!! The 21t and the current rules will be no match for a 17.5 Blinky for sure....But you might improve the 21's performance with a better speedo. I don't know how other drivers feel but If I had a super fast X brand motor that was blowing the doors of other cars I would purposely slow it down to my nearest rivals speed for the sake of some fun close racing (Ive done this in the past) ....the last thing I want to do is sod of in the distance "thats boring" Its the hardest thing trying to match motors to please pockets,theres always variables to consider,but at the moment the two seem a close match thats worth the club playing with...you never know in the new year there may well be a super cheap stock brusless combo available or even a fast reliable sealed can unit ...unfortunatly the 17.5/15t is all thats out there to try and keep people happy and keep them racing as cheap as poss.....And the club needs it at the mo!!
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2011 10:34:16 GMT
I don't know how other drivers feel but If I had a super fast X brand motor that was blowing the doors of other cars I would purposely slow it down to my nearest rivals speed for the sake of some fun close racing (Ive done this in the past) ....the last thing I want to do is sod of in the distance "thats boring" Key point Les. I offered yesterday to change the mode on he ISTC on Ross's car if it was seen that he had an unfair advantage - where is the fun in stonking off in the distance week after week and in reality not actualy racing any-one. You sure will not improve you defensive driving or indeed your attacking driving and there would be no motivation to find that better setup!
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2011 10:53:09 GMT
Well on a personal note I would also like (as I have said several times) to have a bit more speed in the Pro Eco class and the 15t Firebold appears to be just what is required. However if the Eco and Pro Eco are left alone (I believe the Eco at least should be left alone) and the 15t Firebolt is run in stock with the blinking 17.5 brushless then I reckon I will be doing stock next year. I worry about the 17.5 blinky class because I can remember all the work we did before on 17.5 non timing speedo classes to make them go faster whereas running a sealed can 15t motor is, in my opinion, a real playing field leveller. That is the purpose of my post yesterday Ian; that if need be we modify Reuben's proposal tonight. Putting 15T into the new Stock class means that a Pro Eco driver could, say halfway through the season when they have improved, add some speed to their car. They also have two options in front of them. Firstly bolt in a 15T for trouble free motoring. Secondly go brushess with 17.5, learn how to manage the pwertrain and then later move seamlessly to Open TC with a bank of usefukl knowledge. In my view that serves both the older member whose thumbs are slowing down and also the up and coming junior whose aspiration or growing ability will allow them to move to Open TC if desired. And of course not to forget the original purpose of Reuben's proposal having the one class (maybe less Eco) will ensure bigger grids THAT ARE ACTUALLY COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER and therefore exciting racing on an individual basis.
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 10:57:00 GMT
I don't know how other drivers feel but If I had a super fast X brand motor that was blowing the doors of other cars I would purposely slow it down to my nearest rivals speed for the sake of some fun close racing (Ive done this in the past) ....the last thing I want to do is sod of in the distance "thats boring" Key point Les. I offered yesterday to change the mode on he ISTC on Ross's car if it was seen that he had an unfair advantage - where is the fun in stonking off in the distance week after week and in reality not actualy racing any-one. You sure will not improve you defensive driving or indeed your attacking driving and there would be no motivation to find that better setup! Knowing the faster guys who do enjoy the current pro-eco class I would'nt mind betting they too feel the same way I do about de-tuning their motors to keep speeds as equal as poss should one prove to have an advantage over the other at Bashley??....But from what I gather both motors have a very slight advantage over the other and visa versa....One has a very slight top end advantage and the other has better mid range punch that seems to equal its self out on the track in lap times making for some interesting close racing? Open class.....As it stands Eco.................As it stands Pro-eco/stock..........17.5 Blinky (older speedos to be discussed/tested)/15t open speedo
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 14, 2011 11:01:51 GMT
Ah Pete but there you have hit my problem with the proposal....NO ECO.
If there was an ECO class as well as the others then that would be OK for me anyway. I cannot vote for a proposal that effectively turns away new comers. Yes I know it was different in our days when there was only a stock class but I reckon it was a lot cheaper then with lots more options.
There may well be some RTR Brushless cars out there but from what I have seen they are a lot mor expensive than their brushed equivalents, at least they are at the moment. That may well change over time.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2011 11:21:29 GMT
Unfortunately the proposal to be voted on does nothing to alter the pro-eco cars. It would appear those responsible for the proposal were oblivious to freely available information/experiance of one ostrich bottom kicker. . Firstly you have a proposal from me (made yesterday or the day before) to alter the Pro Eco class - so your comment above seems unwarranted and provocative. And let us not get into a discussion of breaking the rules (are we??) in modifying a proposal at the AGM and adopting it – that is what the process should be anyway. There is more important stuff at stake here. Those responsible were just about all the Open TC crew, who care passionately about the club and who represent not all but the vast majority of expertise and understanding of what Touring Car racing is about and what it needs at an operational level to flourish. I take the 2nd comment as a personal insult as no doubt will some of the others. At least WE were and are trying to organise the racing structure to give people more fun and move the club forward. We recognise that what we have is today not right – it may well have been right 2 years ago but not now. So what is this freely available information then? Why did you not suggest it as a counterpoint when you lambasted the proposal? Why did other Pro-Eco drivers not suggest it? Why was it left to me who has no involvement in Pro Eco to suggest it? The first answer it surely it that it is not freely available. Do not forget anyway that what works at Aldershot will not necessarily work at Bashley. Indeed Les posted stuff on this some time back but for whatever reason we (that includes me and you and everyone else) did not at that point pick up on it, maybe partly because we have not tried it – historically we have always depended on Les to do this sort of stuff. I “proposed” the inclusion of 15T solely in an effort to break the deadlock and get a change agreed. I know nothing about the motor but I do trust Les’ judgment when it comes to engines ;D
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2011 11:31:05 GMT
I see the glasses are going as well the thumbs Ian ;D Without wanting to sound poncy, can I refer you to my post of 14th Dec 3:22pm This suggests/concedes keeping Eco separate. Great post, worth a read
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ianlloyd
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Post by ianlloyd on Dec 14, 2011 11:44:46 GMT
14th December? Can I remember that far back? No chance.
Apologies Pete, getting too old for this malarky.
Ok I started this thread to find out a bit more about the 17.5 blinky class. It now seems to have degenerated into yet another discussion on proposals and classes to run. Partly my fault no doubt, I accept that.
Anyway I have all the information I need on this class now (I think) so will leave this to the rest of you.
One final note:
This all seems to me to be getting far too complicated. It is basically really simple in my view. The TC classes to run outdoors are as has been suggested several times,
Eco (for the new comers and stays at it is.) Stock (17.5 Blinky and 15T brushed) for the stock and Pro Eco racers and Open TC for everyone else.
As always if enough people turn up to do a whole heat of one class that will happen, if not then some classes will be amalgamated as always happens.
What is the problem?
On that note I leave you to do some work. See some of you tonight no doubt.
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Post by wessex88 on Dec 14, 2011 11:46:40 GMT
[I am not into personal insults.These were started elsewhere.
As for information it had already been sugested. As You say it had been discussed by open tc drivers.Why did You not see it necessary to include other club members in this discussion.This situation could have been avoided had proper dicussion taken place before the proposal had been put forward.
Are You sugesting that I don`t care about the club?
Firstly you have a proposal from me (made yesterday or the day before) to alter the Pro Eco class - so your comment above seems unwarranted and provocative. And let us not get into a discussion of breaking the rules (are we??) in modifying a proposal at the AGM and adopting it – that is what the process should be anyway. There is more important stuff at stake here.
Those responsible were just about all the Open TC crew, who care passionately about the club and who represent not all but the vast majority of expertise and understanding of what Touring Car racing is about and what it needs at an operational level to flourish.
I take the 2nd comment as a personal insult as no doubt will some of the others. At least WE were and are trying to organise the racing structure to give people more fun and move the club forward. We recognise that what we have is today not right – it may well have been right 2 years ago but not now.
So what is this freely available information then? Why did you not suggest it as a counterpoint when you lambasted the proposal? Why did other Pro-Eco drivers not suggest it? Why was it left to me who has no involvement in Pro Eco to suggest it?
The first answer it surely it that it is not freely available. Do not forget anyway that what works at Aldershot will not necessarily work at Bashley. Indeed Les posted stuff on this some time back but for whatever reason we (that includes me and you and everyone else) did not at that point pick up on it, maybe partly because we have not tried it – historically we have always depended on Les to do this sort of stuff.
I “proposed” the inclusion of 15T solely in an effort to break the deadlock and get a change agreed. I know nothing about the motor but I do trust Les’ judgment when it comes to engines ;D [/quote]
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Post by justchris on Dec 14, 2011 12:17:23 GMT
Hi this seems to me to be getting out of hand again, i thought tonite we were voting on the 4 proposals that are on the download list,15t motors, minis etc are 'nt on the list. Or is just me
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 12:18:31 GMT
14th December? Can I remember that far back? No chance. Apologies Pete, getting too old for this malarky. Ok I started this thread to find out a bit more about the 17.5 blinky class. It now seems to have degenerated into yet another discussion on proposals and classes to run. Partly my fault no doubt, I accept that. Anyway I have all the information I need on this class now (I think) so will leave this to the rest of you. One final note: This all seems to me to be getting far too complicated. It is basically really simple in my view. The TC classes to run outdoors are as has been suggested several times, Eco (for the new comers and stays at it is.) Stock (17.5 Blinky and 15T brushed) for the stock and Pro Eco racers and Open TC for everyone else. As always if enough people turn up to do a whole heat of one class that will happen, if not then some classes will be amalgamated as always happens. What is the problem? On that note I leave you to do some work. See some of you tonight no doubt. Whats the problem?...... non realy Just if 17.5 Blinky/15t gets voted in I strongly sugest to open up the speedo limit rules for the 15t or at least test it with the current £35 Podium ....After all I did post in the past the testing over the months at Aldershot was done with desent speedos!
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Post by justchris on Dec 14, 2011 12:29:28 GMT
nice one les that should clear up the 15t problem as were not tested with the pro-eco esc To have another esc kind of kills pro-eco.
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Post by miffed on Dec 14, 2011 12:49:11 GMT
To have another esc kind of kills pro-eco. Too some small degree Chris but the class basically was born to slow things down a bit for the new driver,a steeping stone class to help the Ansman driver who wanted to progress to a "pro chassis" without the expense of fast brushless gear.The eco side of things(21t/Podium) was a fringe bonus....The pro-eco "nick name" came later and stuck!.... anyway you,myself and Ian run top of the range chassis and gear in this class so in some respects we are taking mickey out of the name lol ......Besides "top of the range" Brushed speedos arnt no where near as expensive as they used to be! 60 quid buys one of the best.
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Post by justchris on Dec 14, 2011 13:01:01 GMT
nice point les, but i thought the idea was just that slower cars but the pro chassis, shocks,etc e.g. TC6, MI4, and so on. Where the point was to learn about the car set up and driving style/skill. Rember all that help you gave me before i went away the tc6 box set up,shell advice, drivig line. All this plus you guys racing a great class dont see any reason to alter it. when people have got confidence they can then go to stock. Just a view as it all seems to be getting very complicated.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2011 14:27:16 GMT
Hi Chris, to all intent and purposes you are right but I do think there is one flaw which was was not there when Pro Eco was started but is now.
If you move "up" to Stock who are you going to race?
As has been pointed out by others we are a small club and yet we think we can survive by running four classes.
It is patently obvious that my view is that this is untenable; as do a number of the other experienced drivers which is why we (via Reuben) put in a proposal to combine the non Open TC classes into one class. The overall objective is to ensure we have an environment where firstly there are bigger competing grids and secondly that allows drivers as they progress being able to reasonably effortlessly move through to Open TC should they choose to do so.
This has resulted in some debate, which is normal and is why I have taken the proposal, given the comments on Eco, and tried to shape it so that we can pass something tonight
This has progressed to include for Pro Eco drivers an additonal proposal to have 15T, as well as the non timing(change) 17.5.
That does not mean Pro Eco drivers have to go out and buy 15T, they can run with 20T. It does not mean the end of Pro Eco it justs means that that technology races under a different banner.
Going forward Stock drivers can run with the cheaper brushed system ie what was called Pro eco if they want to. It is probable once all is settled down that they may find themselves slower BUT that has always been the case when taking up the sport, indeed just about any form of motorsport be it club or professional.
There is no point in spending £1500 as a beginner because you will not do it justice.
If you are unlucky you will get to the point where you can do it justice and will need to go out and spend that sort of money ;D if running at the front is important to you (no reason why it shouldn't be or should be)
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