Your Series, Your Vote !!!

[Simon Crabb]

I've got a couple of chargers, and one of them the lipo seems to come off at 8.42 and the other 8.47.

Neither of them are adjustable for voltage.

I guess Paul is right, need to discharge before using them at BRCA events! Crazy. And of course, you need to make sure your volt meter is reading the same as the scrutineers.

I'd say the BRCA is being a little too careful! A couple of hundredths of a volt over isn't a big deal. A couple of tenths over is though...

[oldtimeracer]

Do top end chargers allow you to set the voltage limit when charging or are they all "peak" orientated.

It would seem that if you can set the voltage your Lipo's will never be peaked. Is that good, bad or indifferent?

Would it be better to peak charge then discharge down to BRCA limits or only charge up to that limit without peaking?

[hedge]

Theres a small discussion about it here

www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/214837-lipo-voltage-limit.html

Paul

[www.YDMRCC.com]

For sure rules are there for control and as long as everyone knows that, then breaking them should in reality carry a penalty that is a deterrent, otherwise it is a waste of time and the organisers need to be prepared to see it through, whoever the rule breaker may be.

This year started off a bit silly. I was very impressed with the way Ian Newton handled the situation. Running anything like the SLCC is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

I think that you have to realise that things like tyres etc may be controlled by outside factors, such as sponsors. As long as the tyre is durable and cost effective, then I see no problem.

The lipo issue is a tricky one. Is it clear that over charging by a small amount (by mistake), noted by Simon that any real advantage is gained?

Same with weight. is 5 or 10 grammes really going to make that much of a difference. At the Yeovil round I ensured that our scruttineering allowed a tolerance of 10 grammes. It just allows that flexibility and reduces friction between racers and allows the event to run smoothly. I think that tolerances should be set before the season starts, racers don't need to know that they are but the organisers and scruttineering do, the same process can be used for lipo charge, wing chord etc.

Trev.

[Kev]

I realize clubs allow tolerances to try and keep racers happy but i do feel that rules are rules and if you don't think you cant take the penalty if you break them then don't break them.
i personally think there should be no tolerance if weight is 1500g then make sure you run above that and the same for lipo voltage, tyres ect.
that way we all know were we stand from track to track

[yellowshark]

Sorry Trev bit I have to agree with Kev - and I think Glen made a similar comment too. There is no reason or excuse for a car to be undeweight. Use the scutineer scales and adjust weight accordingly.

If you come off at 1499 you are below min weight and not complying with the rules - end of story. There is no room for discussion of 1gm being draconian - set your car to 1505 or 1510 if you can't take it.

Ditto for body height an wing stuff. You can get it checked at the track. I invested a large amount of money to get the BRCA gauge so I don't see why I should be penalised for ensuring I comply with the published rules.



he point too -

[oldtimeracer]

I don't think weight is an issue. We all know the rules and checking your weight before racing should be something you do automatically regardless of whether the scales used read different to the ones you may have at home or not. The scrutineering scales are the ones you go by. If you are underweight there should be a penalty.

Lipo voltage is another issue. Variancies in chargers mean there would appear to be differencies in maximum voltage. You just need to check your batteries and make sure they are within limits. Again we all know the rules and need to abide by them.

It may be that the odd .02 of a volt actually makes little difference to your performance but that is not the point in my opinion.

[www.YDMRCC.com]

I agree with you all. Rules are rules but I feel there must be a sensible approach to it. Making sure the car is overweight instead of being bang on 1500g is a sensible approach but it does confirm what I was trying to say that 5 or 10g will not make that much difference. Maybe a way around the whole issue is to remove the opportunity to make one run where the car can be so out of kilter with the rules that cheating is obvious but you are allowed to keep the time. That is a rule I have always found difficult to accept.

In reality the only way to be sure is to scrutineer the cars before they are placed on the track, that way any car found to be so far out that it is obvious they cheating would not be allowed to run, that in my mind seems fairer. Scrutineering after the event seems a bit like shutting the gate after the horse has run away!!!

[Kev]

Totally agree Trev take the cars for scrutineer fives Min's before your run if it passes you race if dint pass you don't race.

[Reuben]

how about at the entrance to the track, you queue up with car in had.

Onto scales - scruitaneer checks,

onto stand - wing cord checked, voltage checked

driver takes car and then can put it on the grid / pits ready for the race..

This process would take all of 10 seconds?

[yellowshark]

Guess we will have to invest in standard weight tyre warmers now ;D

[mattsedgley]

I could produce a gauge that would allow the car to sit high enough that tyre warmers could be left on through the body checks - if Ian wanted them that is...

personally i'd be reluctant to see the testing of all cars as they go onto the track.. It removes the warm boots benifit, they make a real difference.

I'd be happy however to take my car at the begining of the day to be checked.. there are lessons to be learnt from the Nationals - for example we could have tyres booked in and checked before the day starts, BRCA number and coloured spot the same as at the nationals, body height, wing chord etc checked before the,

on another note.... has anyone noticed that you could in theory use someone else's tyres provided they were marked up for the same class at present??

Matt

[www.YDMRCC.com]

Tyre warmers would have to be removed before scrutineering or banned ;D. They could be considered a driver aid / advantage and we cannot have cheating .

Talking serious though. If they had to be removed prior to scutineering that rule would be the same for everybody and I see no problem with that.

Trev

[Matt Haskell]

Aug 19, 2009 21:19:11 GMT Reuben said:

how about at the entrance to the track, you queue up with car in had.

Onto scales - scruitaneer checks,

onto stand - wing cord checked, voltage checked

driver takes car and then can put it on the grid / pits ready for the race..

This process would take all of 10 seconds?

What about the tyre checks?

If they were to be checked before the run, that would add considerable more time.

If it was done after the race, the scrutineers would have to check every car twice per heat - too much for a couple of people in my opinion

[mattsedgley]

surely you do it at the start of the day?

weight
body height

get two sets of tyres marked up -

after each heat... weight, body and tyres checked in comaprison to brca number on heat listing.. job done..

Lipo voltage if it has to be done at the begining of the run.. testing every car as it goes onto the track is a tall order.. also who would be liable for acidental shorts on the pack.. mine has corrally connectors, so it's easy, however on a deans.. the probes are very close together *eek*!!!

[Matt Haskell]

getting the tyres marked at the start of the day is fine if you only have one compound to choose from.

[mattsedgley]

I'd not thought about that!

i've been 32s all season... it's all rather complicated isn't it!!

[lesbaldry]

Blimey chaps this is all a bit deep,I thought the SLCC was a relaxed friendly series ;D....Its just a shame that one or two can spoil it for the rest

Voltage seems to be the big issue here and yes a serious one for obvious reasons but please keep any rules simple for scrutineering please its a thankless job do do as it is,any process to slow up scrutineering will just spoil the day and annoy racers in my book

Minor discrepancies with body wing and weight are really irrelevant some tolerance must be allowed "we are club men" mistakes can be made by new drivers so if we start forcing hard rules and they will have to be the same for everyone regardless of ability I feel this will upset many!!

Spot checks and the threat of a meeting or series ban with total loss of points for any one caught blatantly braking the rules should be enough to put some off..put it this way the persistent cheaters Will GET CAUGHT IN THE END!!

Just a thought...Voltage check..A simple short fly lead made from a servo wire and conector spliced into main cell leads thats easilly accessable from under side might help "SHOULD " we want to enforce this rule.

[oldtimeracer]

I don't think there is anything at all wrong with the way scrutineering is done now. Random voltage checks on the line is good, tyres, weight, body etc afterwards is fine. It is just the application of the penalty that needs maybe, and I say maybe advisedly, applying a little bit more stringently.

If someone is 20 plus grams underweight they lose their time, if the voltage check is way over they are not allowed to race.

As has been said, we all know the rules and what is the point in having them if they are not applied from the outset.

I agree that the team so far has done an admirable job in allowing some leeway in all matters but there are people out there who will take advantage.

We certainly do not want to change in anyway the fun of this series and the relaxed atmosphere.
Those people who will take advantage of the leeway given should be penalised in my opinion.

[yellowshark]

Spot on Ian

[www.YDMRCC.com]

I think in the end, common sense will prevail. It is quite interesting the different ideas and points of view that come out of a debate like this.

Mostly the series is quite relaxed and for sure that is the way it should stay. We all know what happened at the first round any repeat of that would be a shame.

Simple, accessible, cost effective, friendly racing is what we seem to have. My vote would be to maintain the status quo with an odd tweak here and there.

Trev

[lesbaldry]

Spot on Trev!.....Who would fancy telling a youngster who has just done his personal best 14 lapper that it didnt count cause he lost 20 gms and the tuft of grass under his spoiler has made it too high ...not me!!!

Weight to me is not the issue here voltage is!!...There is NO way weight can be policed correctly anyway unless the car is picked up after the race by a scrutineer only!!...at the moment there is nothing to stop a driver or pit man slapping a large chunk of weight onto the car on the way to scrutineering!!!

Some rules like weight should be done with a certain amount of trust..Any one caught doing the above "easily done" cheat SHOULD be banned

The quicker we can get the race weight down to say 1425 the better,anyone who trys to run a car stupidly light at this weight will probably have job to lateral balance anyway making for a poor handling car

As for voltage there must be some sort of leeway, chargers differ and to be honest most of us club men would hardly notice the difference with a pack at 8.6v ..but 9v thats IS a different story!