|
|
Post by Mike V on Dec 9, 2009 13:42:40 GMT
Hey guys, I'm sure this will cause some debate (or not ;D)
Considering getting a brand new car, if I have enough over xmas to fund brushless as well. I'm looking at either the new Xray T3 (I'm a big fan of Xray, and have had hardly any problems/breakages on my current one), or the new Mi4-LP. Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
Post by Reuben on Dec 9, 2009 15:19:59 GMT
Mi4-LP! The car is superb and quick out of the box, it comes with all the option parts that I have put onto my Mi4 aka Short arms, flex hubs (without the Titainium driveshafts, but these arent necessary). When I got my Mi4 I dropped my PB by 8 seconds, then a further 2 seconds the following week. Thats how much faster that car was mechanically (to my driving style) that my older car. The car is also lovely to work on and a lot of thought has obviously gone into its design. It is also very tough and can take some pretty hard hits, the only thing i broke on mine so far is the rear shock tower (and that was by catching air and hitting a concrete wall at chippenham). There is also a number of Mi4 owners at the club who im sure are happy to help/share setups and tips.  however its not all sun and glory, the Mi4 is a heavy car by kit and not as light as the X-ray, but you should still be able to make 1350 from Kit - depending on electronics. Also if you choose the Mi4-LP, ide recommend getting a set of the Grey belts and replace the kit black ones - they seem to stretch and then tighten again and you never get the belt tension right - however the Grey ones are for Stock racing and are superb. |
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 9, 2009 16:21:26 GMT
The T3 is realtivly new and is suffering some brakages issues,the Mi4 has been out for a while and apart from some very minor wear issues is well sorted...if theses two are the only ones on your short list I would go for the Mi4....but if you want a superb car that is easy to set up for the clubman get a Photon it will whooop other cars in low grip..its bloody tough too!! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Mike V on Dec 9, 2009 16:35:00 GMT
I was considering a photon, just wasnt too sure about it, with it being a relatively unknown make to me (having been out of the scene for a couple of years!).
I should know if I can get one by the very end of the year, but it sounds like it could be between 3, possibly 2 if the xray turns out to be an issue. Maybe it would be worth looking at a T2 009 instead, ebay currently have those for £275
|
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 9, 2009 16:55:18 GMT
I was considering a photon, just wasnt too sure about it, with it being a relatively unknown make to me (having been out of the scene for a couple of years!). I should know if I can get one by the very end of the year, but it sounds like it could be between 3, possibly 2 if the xray turns out to be an issue. Maybe it would be worth looking at a T2 009 instead, ebay currently have those for £275 Every one will have their favorits...so my comments are purely a personal point of view based upon my experience,I ran a T2 008 for about 3 months and I found it difficult and finickity to set up well, the car never seemed to respond well to set up changes "very vague" it seemed to get "sloppy" quickly too compared too.... As far as Mi4 V Photon all I can say is I currently run both,both cars are very quick and respond well to set up changes but in low grip or cold days the Photon does has the edge with grip and ease of drive "for me"...its a superb stock classes car that carries very impresive corner speed....car for car it proved to be 0.5 sec a lap faster on one club day this year |
|
|
|
Post by darrenoakley on Dec 9, 2009 17:12:16 GMT
The other good thing about the Photon is Terry also has one so if you do need spares he always has most of it in stock.
Its my first stock car and I am well impressed with the quality parts and how well it all fits together.
|
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 9, 2009 17:31:59 GMT
The Mi4 is a great car which is in my opinion very strong, to date, my list of breakages has been small,
Benefits include cheap parts, from a UK manufacturer. Terry can get parts for the car easily, its popular at many clubs. Wear issues are small and it's really responsive to setup changes.. personally I love it!
|
|
|
|
Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 9, 2009 19:44:55 GMT
Out of those two I'd buy the Schumacher, but then I love the quality of the Xray.
But, before either I'd buy another Tamiya 416...
|
|
|
|
Post by gwesty on Dec 9, 2009 20:35:15 GMT
thats a difficult question , both cars are good . quality wise then xray wins every time , strength then again id say xray due to the wishbones and suspension components being "beefier" . the schu plastic parts bend in big impacts rather than break ! the mi4 has proved its a good club and race car but so has the t3 in the short time its been released !!! the counter sinking on the xray chassis has caused a few people issues but a new (free) suspension beam has been made to cover the issue both are good cars so good luck gw |
|
|
|
Post by Mike V on Dec 10, 2009 8:19:33 GMT
I can tell this will be a difficult decision come the end of the year! Cheers for the coments guys, It's gonna be fun trying to work out what to go for
|
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2009 13:47:11 GMT
I cannot comment on the Mi-4 but no doubt it is a good car
The 008 & 009 are both great cars and at Bashley perform superbly out of the box ie kit settings. I know Les never really got on with it but Craig did and he set 2nd fastest lap time in the SLCC 10.5 A final at Bashley this year with his 009
With the 009 and a 10.5 (never ran the 008 with a 10.5) we did find some understeer but that was cured with a couple of changes. Whilst we have played around and tested different settings the current 009 configuration has 3, maybe 4 changes to kit setup.
Of course the quality, reliability, strength and availability of parts is legendary. Non believers jibe at costs but quality and strength coupled with a light weight come at a price.
The only exception to this in my view are the ECS drive-shafts which have a tendency in our experience to throw the joining pin; although I must say I have improved my build quality and lessened the issue quite a lot - these are upgrades not kit parts
I would also expand on Les' comment on T3 breakages.
There were/are factual reports on some people suffering breakages with the newly designed A arm supports - the A arms used to be fixed to the bulkheads and now are fixed direct to the chassis. This then become a farce as one individual who doesn¡¦t drive XRAY went onto every forum in the World to slag XRAY off and every individual who had the audacity to disagree with him, including me ;D.
For every report of this problem there were far more T3 owners reporting they had had no problems. XRAY organised a test by professional and amateur drivers at an indoor track in the USA and they spent all day trying to crash the cars as hard as possible. Not one breakage.
Notwithstanding that and as you would expect with XRAY, within 2-3 weeks of this surfacing they had designed a fix and issued it free to all current owners. Your choice to fit, it does stiffen the front of the chassis a bit ¡V no doubt Elliott would notice, we probably wouldn¡¦t.
I am not saying there have not been breakages and I deliberately use that word rather than ¡§problem¡¨, but XRAY could not repeat it; they even had someone attack the A arm with a hammer. There is an intelligent body of thought that suggests maybe the issue arises due to loose screws. As we know all good drivers check their screws before a race
All the forum postings suggest the T3 is a quicker even easier car to drive than the 009. Of course as we all know, people do not go onto forums and declare the shiny new car is poo! Elliott the European Junior champion has been raving about it (then again he is sponsored so the same comment applies to some extent!!).
|
|
|
|
Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 10, 2009 13:54:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 10, 2009 15:10:56 GMT
Bugger you beat me too it  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 10, 2009 17:42:36 GMT
and me too!! I suppose at the end of the day, all of the cars are obviously capable of winning, Of the three - both the Mi4 (in whichever guise) and the photon, are well supported through the club, the Xray has possibly less support at club level for people that you would regularly see, Jamie doesn't do many Sunday's neither do the Campbell's, The Experience of Les with the photon means that set up assistance is regularly available and very good, You've also got Terry, and Darren Oakley running the chassis regularly, and Ian Newton, For the Mi4 there's me and Reuben, who have two very different set up styles, Personally I'm still learning about setup so wouldn't consider myself an expert, and Reuben who seems to have a way at getting setups to work.. (we've both been racing for 18 months or so....) For the Xray, there's Pete Campbell, he and his son craig run 009's etc, and Jamie Traylor, I'd consider him a bit of setup mogul. he's never slow! - Also the Staples clan - who are fast with an Xray however non of them use a T3 currently.. If santa brings you a purple present, it could come pre-built - you could come racing on Boxing Day with us!! Matt  |
|
|
|
Post by Reuben on Dec 10, 2009 17:43:24 GMT
does that mean he is going to give up TC? most Tamiya 416/415 drivers i know dont race TC often anymore......must be the car, not the cold weather  |
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 10, 2009 17:45:30 GMT
Simon Crabb, Colin York.. I head Colin had moved Yeovil way Darren Knight?? although looking at this site www.phoenixrcracing.co.uk/ He's been racing at other clubs? |
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2009 19:18:31 GMT
Ooh no, news to me Simon. One assumes he couldn't keep up with the T3? |
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2009 20:07:34 GMT
Lol Matt, very droll considering you did one more round than us in the spring summer championship; one more round than us in the Reality Cup and one more round than us in winter championship; ignoring of course September and October when you weren't there quite a few times when we were.  I can immediately think of 3 other drivers with XRAY's when we were down last, 4 if you include Ross ;D Mike, Matt is right though on T3 driver's; that will be partly due to the capability of the 009; XRAY issue improved cars every year so the jump to the new one is never that great compared with some other cars. (not saying that is the case with the Mi4) As you said in your opening post a 2nd hand 009 would be a good alternative. One was going on Racechat last week for £160 including a fair number of spares. It is true that traditionally the club has been low on XRAY drivers but it has grown substantially in 09 along with the support Go here for a demo of the smooth handling an 009 delivers (orange and blue car on pole) www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsckkqnuvz8At the end of the day its horses for courses, I know Dan is very happy and very fast with his Schumacher |
|
|
|
Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 10, 2009 20:36:51 GMT
Ooh no, news to me Simon. One assumes he couldn't keep up with the T3? When you're that good you can drive anything, I guess the chance to be on the Tamiya factory team with the best in Europe and the World seemed rather attractive! |
|
|
|
Post by Reuben on Dec 10, 2009 21:42:54 GMT
Yeh with all the cars as good as each other, and each having its own pros / cons, its about who is behind the sticks and how much open support you get from fellow club members. The reason the Mi4 attracted me originally was due to the availability and cost benefits of having a UK manufacturer, and not having to worry about exchange rates from importers (remember 09 when the cyclone parts suddenly got more expensive). But ultimately you will be spending the money on a new chassis so it has to appeal to your personal preferences, you have got to be able to look at it on the desk and think that was worth X amount of money . What ever you decide to buy Mike, it will be faster than your current T1 - i hope. |
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2009 21:43:54 GMT
Yup no doubt your'e right Simon. They must be hurting, both Elliott and Craig no longer under XRAY sponsorship  |
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 10, 2009 22:17:56 GMT
Lol Matt, very droll considering you did one more round than us in the spring summer championship; one more round than us in the Reality Cup and one more round than us in winter championship; ignoring of course September and October when you weren't there quite a few times when we were. Are we off topic yet?  That's correct Pete I've done a couple more rounds than you and Craig did in most championships, also in SLCC, and speaking specifically about indoors, or Wednesday night outdoors, I think I must be on for 100% more than you! Obviously you may not be counting rounds where I've just turned up and spent time at the track instead of racing etc etc.. :x :x Back to topic! I'd not even thought about the exchange rate! Having parts there next day is great, Muchmore racing, through terry can provide this service with the photon, Schumacher parts take a couple of days to come through, and i expect Xray would be the same although I honestly am not sure, The T3 is more expensive that either of the other two in kit form isn't it??? |
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 10, 2009 22:19:45 GMT
Do Xray have a "young gun" in the UK now? Both Glenn and Jay are with Xray, but who else is in the xray team? anyone know?
|
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2009 8:03:02 GMT
Priority of choice of car for me would be
1 Spares availability
2 User friendly ( ease of set up)
3 Robustness (excessive wear and brakage issues)
4 Easy to work on
5 Who at my local club can I get help from (for the new driver)
6 Bling....this can sway some to the Dark side (first choice) ;D
For the new driver..be weary of newly released chassis,they have teething problems "they all do" and may need exspensive "hop up/mod" parts in the near future.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mike V on Dec 11, 2009 9:55:57 GMT
What ever you decide to buy Mike, it will be faster than your current T1 - i hope. I'd certainly hope so! I've never had any major issues with the T1, and I bought that the second week after it was released! There was a thrust bearing in the diff that xray replaced under warranty, because some drivers had seen the standard one disintegrate, but I'd never had the issue before I swapped it. Cheers for the opinions, it's interesting coming back into the sport when things have changed so much! I'm currently watching a new MI4 for £308, a new 009 for £273, and a new photon for £290 on ebay, so we'll see what finances I have, will it be purple, red or orange......? |
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2009 10:50:03 GMT
The Mi4 and Photon are current Models..the T2 009?  ....The Mi4 may need the carbon short wishbones and flexi C hubs to be up to compedative race spec "not cheap"also too the narrow Lipo chassis "lots of dosh",the Photon needs none of the later to perform well as long as it has the modified spool, £10 extra if not! Researching various makes forums can give a racer a good insite on good and bad points of any car. Ps there is some absolute Pratt on the Xray forum slagging off the teething issues with the T3 ...dont take any notice of this Idiot  as I said all new chassis have teething probs,Xray are no mugs either!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Reuben on Dec 11, 2009 11:09:53 GMT
Mike Les is right with the Standard Mi4, if it comes as kit you will want to get the shorter cf wishbones, m or f flex hubs and LP chassis (which totals about £70), especially for next year. However if you get the new LP version of the Mi4 (aka the Mi4-LP), then all these hop-ups are included as standard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mike V on Dec 11, 2009 11:33:22 GMT
Yep, T2 009, over £100 cheaper than the T3!
I had a quick look on racechat, and the largest forum specifically about the car and how good/bad it is, is with the photon. Are thereany other forums that have been set up since? Racechat is the main one I know of......
The photon forum has nothing but praise on it btw, and the spool seems to be coming with the steel outdrives as standard now?
|
|
|
|
Post by gwesty on Dec 11, 2009 12:42:59 GMT
Do Xray have a "young gun" in the UK now? Both Glenn and Jay are with Xray, but who else is in the xray team? anyone know? xray have luke thompson , ayrton andersson , ryan edwards , charlie ware and now kieran "senna" clift . there are others but these are all doing brca nats |
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2009 12:53:50 GMT
Yep, T2 009, over £100 cheaper than the T3! I had a quick look on racechat, and the largest forum specifically about the car and how good/bad it is, is with the photon. Are thereany other forums that have been set up since? Racechat is the main one I know of...... The photon forum has nothing but praise on it btw, and the spool seems to be coming with the steel outdrives as standard now? RCtech have a dedicated Photon forum with 200 pages of info at the last count, the posts are from all over the world most are a waste of time.but they give a good un bias representation of the car....Yes I believe the later kits either come with the V2 spool or now with the steel outdrives. If had to make a choice it would be a very hard choice as I believe each car has its merits for different track type/situations...but between the two the photon scored the best points "out of the box" for me...in std form it does generate tremendous amounts of grip sometimes too much but that can only be a good thing for the clubman with well used rubber |
|
;D
That's correct Pete I've done a couple more rounds than you and Craig did in most championships, also in SLCC, and speaking specifically about indoors, or Wednesday night outdoors, I think I must be on for 100% more than you! Obviously you may not be counting rounds where I've just turned up and spent time at the track instead of racing etc etc.. :x :x 
....The Mi4 may need the carbon short wishbones and flexi C hubs to be up to compedative race spec "not cheap"also too the narrow Lipo chassis "lots of dosh",the Photon needs none of the later to perform well as long as it has the modified spool, £10 extra if not!
as I said all new chassis have teething probs,Xray are no mugs either!!!