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Post by Reuben on Oct 18, 2011 16:02:31 GMT
Forget off road we didn't spend the summer ripping up astroturf for fun. The less common posters that visit the forum do not post on issues iike this due to fear of being not ridiculed or have a Sharp unwitted response fired back at them. But there are lots of people looking and reading it - I've had them comment to me on their thoughts about the thread.
In regards to the pc, yes you can have differing year lengths for each class. And on Sundays when I'm rd and there's only two heats I will adjust the race gaps to 4 minutes. Which works nicely if your marsalling at points 3-5 and don't fancy sprinting back to your table.
We just need to work together and get a solution that suites everyone. Or doesn't deter many people.
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Post by Reuben on Oct 18, 2011 16:05:55 GMT
Also I would like to see some input from other racers.... Especially what the less-out spoken member wants... Unless of course they don't really care and just want somewhere to ra e on Sunday/Wednesday and work around whatever the times are...
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shane
Hitting the Tyre
Posts: 33
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Post by shane on Oct 18, 2011 17:59:53 GMT
reuben,it is rearly hard to set up 3 cars in the time i had,with marshalling etc,also if the club want to encourage new comers ie kids the price should be reduced,my boys dont want to race there or indoors at new milton because of prices,shame rearly because i liked racing indoors and outdoors at your club,im not a member but would like to be had a laugh and giggle with the people who race there,also if its a days racing outdoors it should be a days racing not cut short
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Neil
At the Thermometer
SHMCC Committee Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Neil on Oct 18, 2011 18:23:29 GMT
thanks for your thoughts shane,i i can see your problem with so many cars to get ready and batterys to charge etc,as fae as pricing goes it is cheaper to race as a member whitch may help and im sure the commitee will discuss pricing again as times are hard for everyone but also have to take into account our ongoing overheads that dont get any easier. it would be great to see you and the boys racing at the club again.
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Post by miffed on Oct 18, 2011 19:42:52 GMT
thanks for your thoughts shane,i i can see your problem with so many cars to get ready and batterys to charge etc,as fae as pricing goes it is cheaper to race as a member whitch may help and im sure the commitee will discuss pricing again as times are hard for everyone but also have to take into account our ongoing overheads that dont get any easier. it would be great to see you and the boys racing at the club again. .......A little note from the side lines,Its a little late to "kiss butt" now,The committee should have addressed the situation long ago when its members were told about it.Its better to possibly loose a misguided RD than to loose or upset members,or were the committee to frightened or weak to solve the problem? Its a shame a thread of this nature has arisen so all I can say is ....THAT WORKED THEN .....Good luck and hopefully SHMCC can learn from this and importantly understand that a committee should work for its members and not the other way round!
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Neil
At the Thermometer
SHMCC Committee Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Neil on Oct 18, 2011 20:14:36 GMT
im not kissing butt just responding to a reasonable comment on the thread, that can be delt with in a sensible manor,
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Post by Dave Chamberlain on Oct 18, 2011 20:44:22 GMT
OK everyone, It is really good to see this thread run with excellent if not slightly emotional debate!! The club and the hobby (in TC format) has no doubt suffered this year in popularity, something which was noticeable from the drop off in SLCC attendance last year and I suspect due in part to the current world wide economic situation. I'm sure there are still the "Big clubs" who continue to have large memberships but from comments from the guys who race at the other local clubs we are not alone in suffering a "down turn" Even the indoor track at Silverstone closed earlier this year and by all accounts that was a top notch facility. The post that starts this thread was originally posted on the AGM proposal thread which was started to allow all members to have their say on how the club is run, I strongly encourage anyone with a proposal (and there are quite a few here!!) to post them on the AGM thread and get them seconded.. Also just as importantly come along to the AGM and ensure your vote counts!! As for the current committee and line up of RD's we are one in the same I'm afraid.. Warts and all.. I would be more than happy to show anyone willing to learn how to RD (volunteers please! we're always asking..) Once up and running, anyone (with agreement of the other drivers) can run a meeting as they see fit.. See it as your chance to strike the perfect race meeting balance for all! As for the committee in general, we have been looking for some fresh blood for over a year but sadly no one has come forward and I'm unsure why???.. You don't get paid, you don't get free racing or membership, you automatically qualify for RD duties, and have to undertake various duties such as attending monthly committee meetings, organising RD rotas, running all club finances, organising yearly memberships & BRCA applications, Grass cutting, work parties, maintaining race PC's and printers, run Club promotions & events and finally keep this forum & website updated with info and results. (should I also mention new rostrum steps, 240v power at Bashley, a kettle!, new hand out transponders, new lawn mower and a new race control PC) Organisation , communication, openness and having fun is what I'd like to think the current committee has tried to provide.. If anyone wants their say or wants to see how we work, we set up a "drivers chair" for all committee meetings where anyone (member) can ask to attend a meeting, this facility has been open for almost a year and so far only one person has asked to attend??? Please use the AGM, committee meeting racers chair, my phone number!! etc to have your say in how your club is run.. I would just like to remind all SHMCC drivers that your race fees & memberships pay for the running costs of the club only, not the non existent wages of the 5 volunteer committee members or the 4 current volunteer RD's.. Peace, Love, unity... Oh! and having fun Big D
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
Posts: 932
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Post by ianlloyd on Oct 19, 2011 7:27:06 GMT
Well said Dave. I think you voice the thoughts of most of us.
Just a point on a previous post here. It was suggested that we lower the cost for non members and yet another post suggested that a n other club charges twice as much for non members as members (£5 and £10) so the reasoning behind dropping the price seems to be non existent?. Not sure of the ruling on new people but maybe a lower price for the first 3 meetings until they have to join?
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Post by issac on Oct 19, 2011 10:00:53 GMT
The extra fee for non members was setup becouse some time ago it was noticed that the club charged all at the same fee negating the need for anybody to join the club. A study was taken of all surounding clubs and the extra fee ranged from 2 pounds to 5 pounds. As the tracks charging 5 pounds have hot food, perminant male/female toilets etc, the then committee decided to set the extra payment at 2 pounds. Having the same fee means there is no point in paying the membership fee becouse there is no gain from it. Charging non members extra does not put other club drivers off becouse most won't travel to another club if you payed them.
As for other coments made on here, fixed fdr's dont work what suits one driver will not suit another and unless you examine all cars it leads to more problems. longer races put more heat into a motor and shorten the life of a brushed motor quite a bit. Silverstone packed up becouse the cost was very high compared to a normal club and had limitations placed upon it not allowing it to advertise and get the corporate market to use it. As for time between rounds 45 to 50 mins for club meetings and 1 hr for the bigger meetings was the norm. if a race director had to leave early then we used to organise a replacement so the meeting could continue. when the extra fee was brought in new members were allowed 3 meetings before they had to pay either membership or the extra fee this brought the paying of a meeting in line with the need for brca insurance.
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 19, 2011 10:04:57 GMT
..snip... Just a point on a previous post here. It was suggested that we lower the cost for non members and yet another post suggested that a n other club charges twice as much for non members as members (£5 and £10) so the reasoning behind dropping the price seems to be non existent?. Not sure of the ruling on new people but maybe a lower price for the first 3 meetings until they have to join? That is pretty much what my proposal says guys. I made a comment (not a proposal) that the 1st 3 meetings could be at membership price. I am happy to add that to the proposal if you feel it is helpful?
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 19, 2011 10:09:06 GMT
Thanks for that Ian, most helpful. Unsurprisingly my proposals are pretty much in line with your comments because I was trying to get us back to where we were
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 19, 2011 10:20:12 GMT
Hi all,
I have reread all the posts on this and I am going to do that again tonight. My interpretation is that there is in fact general acceptance that a change is not unreasonable - as always the devil is in the detail.
I plan to resubmit my proposal(s) taking into account the idea of a longer gap between heats so that batteries can go on charge and tyres can have additive added and go on the air cycle before that drivers return to the track for marshalling.
It would be really helpful if..
Some more Eco/ProEco drivers commented on Ian's idea to extend the race to 8 mins - if the majority say, want it to be 7 minutes then please say so.
The TC drivers could give some thought as to what for them would be a reasonable time to do the tyre and battery prep before the next race starts. I said in a previous post that would need 7 minutes (from the 5 minute bell)- that did not include the battery but I am sure I could fit that in to that timescale. The point here is if all you guys feel you could do it in less and want less then that is fine with me as I do not have to marshall unless helping out.
I would like to get the revison out by close of play tomorrow - but ideally need comments - else I will just do my best without them and wait for more ideas!
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
Posts: 932
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Post by ianlloyd on Oct 19, 2011 10:41:22 GMT
Just out of interest I have been going round the other local club sites and looking at their membership fees.
Yeovil £20 + BRCA (£13) Aldershot £35 + BRCA (£13) Dorset no membership required Bransgore £10 + BRCA (£13) Torch £15 + BRCA (£13) SHMCC £20 + BRCA (£13)
most seem to charge £5 for a race day for members, some charge extra for non members some do not.
In my opinion we are about right.
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Post by justchris on Oct 19, 2011 17:56:57 GMT
Hi all I've just come home for the night from london and has been said the forum is'nt the place for this type of discussion. I'm lucky i know most of you BUT if you were a potential member you may not believe what a great club this is. There must be a way we can make everyone welcome, we cant let our pro drivers leave just as we cant let newcomers feel unwelcome. Just my thoughts
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Post by robracer on Oct 23, 2011 19:12:40 GMT
Just an observation about times of races. A few years ago i used to race a Big6 and our races were adjusted on the computer to 4 minutes so there should be no problem making a race 6 or 7 minutes long. Also about the club James and i were down the track today hoping for a race day but not enough racers, so we had a practice session. Just as we were packing up three dads and there youngsters arrived, having talked to Terry yesterday, to look at our club and possability of racing here but although we chatted to them you could see they were disappointed that there was no racing.
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Post by miffed on Oct 24, 2011 21:22:07 GMT
Slightly off subject but to add to my previous post regarding "pep up" Pro Eco Am I passionate about our Pro-Eco class? hell yes! after all It was "my baby" I think the members/club may be a little short sighted not to seriously consider giving the 15t sealed can version of Pro-Eco a try. Apart from Aldershot I have spoken to two different clubs that have taken on this class with success.Their rules do differ slightly but they are still experimenting.both clubs reliably tell me the 15t Saturn motor coupled to a desent ESC is an equal to 17.5 blinky so allow the classes to run together. I feel not only will this "liven up" the class some but also may well attract back the more serious racer who just Fancy's a "DAY" of fun racing....It may well also,if well advertised and rules settled upon by the clubs, attract other clubs to us for future inter club events or just some close cheap racing with like minded people......then we will have to have a settled heat schedule wont we ( back to original sbject Dave lol) Rules I have heard of so far.....Have a debate members/non members Any 10th Chassis,4 or 2wd Any body Shell (People are fed up with current jelly moulds) Control tyre (treaded,non belted but under a tenner) Open tyre (rubber only,no foams) Open ESC or fixed price....(A slightly better speedo than our current Podium £40 will help with perfomance) Any cells, max 7.4 volts (including current Li-po's) Tyre warmers or No tyre warmers(Aldershots choice with control tyre) Addative or no addative (Aldershots choice with control tyre) Aldershots thinking with the ban on tyre warmers and addative with a cheap control tyre is to keep the racing cheap for the newby,But personaly I think for SHMCC at the mo leave the rules as they are,just pop the 15t in and give it a try with a better ESC....whos up for a Pro-Eco fast 19 then....or even a 20,Trust my judgment here(one or two didnt with the original Pro -Eco )I have seen the 15t go,they cost a tenner and are fast enough to thrill most. A final note from the side lines......Have fun with the debate (if you do) and I hope Pro eco is still working well for you all next year
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
Posts: 932
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Post by ianlloyd on Oct 25, 2011 7:41:14 GMT
Just my own point of view here and not having run this 15 turn Saturn motor I could be wrong but.....surely opening up the ESC rules in Pro Eco will just push us all back to the speedo wars we all had a few years ago with normal bruushed 27 turn stock? If you don't have a top spec speedo you will be outclassed. My undertsanding of Pro Eco was to help keep the costs of this down and try for a more level playing field for everyone.
Quite happy to try a slightly faster motor in Pro Eco, might be a good thing but be careful you do not make the class finance dependent again with regards to speedos.
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Post by issac on Oct 25, 2011 10:24:38 GMT
Just to clarify
At Aldershot the new pro-eco class does allow any speedo with the 15 turn saturn motor or any 17.5 in blinky mode ( no timing ). Rather than make a class that people have to buy new equipment for, the rules allow new drivers to not spend a lot of money to race and old drivers to use what is prob gathering dust in a drawer. The limiting factor is the tyres which are the fastrax £9 a set treaded tyre preglued, so far these have run in approx 5 meetings and given good grip at all meetings ( true not at the same level as a sorex but if everybody is using the same then nobody gets an advantage ). For bodyshells it is prefered that the current crop of racing shells are not used with most using older proper car looking shells.
I would like to point out that the racing in this class has been close/ fun and not expensive with speeds close to what 27 turn was about 5 years ago.
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Post by issac on Oct 25, 2011 10:54:55 GMT
Now i am not suggesting that the club run this class, but it shows that a club can find a class that suits new and old drivers alike that is not expensive but most important - fun!!!
Never have i seen so much laughing and smiles from drivers after racing. Even the members who race the bikes have joined in so they can race a fun class on a damp day when the bikes don't work.
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
Posts: 932
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Post by ianlloyd on Oct 25, 2011 12:02:01 GMT
Does sound like fun Ian. I just worry about those "few" racers who would always want to go out and spend a lot on a super speedo so they have an advantage. Maybe the tyres are the limiting factor as you say. Would like to try it and see.
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Post by issac on Oct 25, 2011 12:10:05 GMT
you will never stop people spending money if they think they can get an advantage, but if you have a lower grip tyre all the power gets wasted spinning the wheels. learning how to drive the car becomes the way forward not blasting down the straight with loads of power only to fly into the next county at the corner.
I can tell you that there are some who are using mx pro speedo's and others who are using a brushless speedo on brushed settings and a few who are using cheep speedo's. The speed is the same, you run what you have.
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
Posts: 932
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Post by ianlloyd on Oct 25, 2011 13:53:06 GMT
Now i am not suggesting that the club run this class, but it shows that a club can find a class that suits new and old drivers alike that is not expensive but most important - fun!!! Never have i seen so much laughing and smiles from drivers after racing. Even the members who race the bikes have joined in so they can race a fun class on a damp day when the bikes don't work. Actually this is exactly why the Eco and Pro Eco class was introduced so I thought. For people to have fun and not spend a fortune. The ECO was for absolute beginners running RTR cars and the PRO ECO was for those who wanted to upgrade to a better chassis but still use the same equipment/radio gear etc they had and by doing so save money. I think we are now talking about a complete change of class to be honest, different tyres and speedos and motors for Pro Eco so there is no natural progression from Eco. Again if that is what people want then so be it.
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Post by miffed on Oct 25, 2011 19:03:33 GMT
Speedo wars,I remember them well .....You may have a valid point Ian if we were still in the brushed years but fortunately in reality the stupidly priced efficient ESC's of yesteryear are now today less than half price,A super Fett'ed brushed ESC can be had for as little as 45 quid,Plus I would like to think one of theses would have only a little advantage on SHMCC'S small track for the new driver so would only show the current 35 quid Podium a clean pair of heels on a larger power track .But its worth testing....If some one has such a speedo couple it to the 21t and see if it gives way better performance befor they are condemned ...or ENJOYED ;D! We could also worry about "who's got the best Cells"... Should the rules ban Matched Ni-Cad's or Ni-Mh's that have better punch and will carry a higher surface Voltage that will be faster than Li-po for the first couple of laps?....Or even moan about the racer with the 400 quid latest faster chassis thats allowed in the current Pro -Eco rules...Where do we all draw the line in this simplistic stepping stone fun class?....Sod the championship points its all about fun,exchanging info and importantly learning from the clubs helpfull faster drivers befor the faster classes where points mean prizes and possible sponsorship! We can all pick holes in any classes rules so I make no more proposals for Pro-Eco but genuinely want to help with sensible suggestions to evolve this popular class,Keep it up with current trends,generate interest,fun and keep SHMCC moving forward(from the side lines ) I hope my ideas sound workable and still cheap for all ...I do think Pro-Eco needs a little "lift and spark" just a motor and ESC rule change(capped at £60??) would do it a world of good in my mind!......Better Brakes too Are we missing the plot slightly .... Pro-Eco was not necessarily born for its Eco side...It was to keep speeds sensible for all to learn from and enjoy too!! Remember Ian Pro-Eco brought you back to outdoor TC's for its sensible fun speed and close racing and perhaps not its cheapness ...which is a added bonus for all to enjoy One things for certain though....Once brought a decent ESC don't wear out like expensive control tyres
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 25, 2011 19:41:43 GMT
Slightly off subject but to add to my previous post regarding "pep up" Pro Eco Am I passionate about our Pro-Eco class? hell yes! after all It was "my baby" I think the members/club may be a little short sighted not to seriously consider giving the 15t sealed can version of Pro-Eco a try. Apart from Aldershot I have spoken to two different clubs that have taken on this class with success.Their rules do differ slightly but they are still experimenting.both clubs reliably tell me the 15t Saturn motor coupled to a desent ESC is an equal to 17.5 blinky so allow the classes to run together. I feel not only will this "liven up" the class some but also may well attract back the more serious racer who just Fancy's a "DAY" of fun racing....It may well also,if well advertised and rules settled upon by the clubs, attract other clubs to us for future inter club events or just some close cheap racing with like minded people......then we will have to have a settled heat schedule wont we ( back to original sbject Dave lol) Rules I have heard of so far.....Have a debate members/non members Any 10th Chassis,4 or 2wd Any body Shell (People are fed up with current jelly moulds) Control tyre (treaded,non belted but under a tenner) Open tyre (rubber only,no foams) Open ESC or fixed price....(A slightly better speedo than our current Podium £40 will help with perfomance) Any cells, max 7.4 volts (including current Li-po's) Tyre warmers or No tyre warmers(Aldershots choice with control tyre) Addative or no addative (Aldershots choice with control tyre) Aldershots thinking with the ban on tyre warmers and addative with a cheap control tyre is to keep the racing cheap for the newby,But personaly I think for SHMCC at the mo leave the rules as they are,just pop the 15t in and give it a try with a better ESC....whos up for a Pro-Eco fast 19 then....or even a 20,Trust my judgment here(one or two didnt with the original Pro -Eco )I have seen the 15t go,they cost a tenner and are fast enough to thrill most. A final note from the side lines......Have fun with the debate (if you do) and I hope Pro eco is still working well for you all next year Hi if someone would like to do a proposal along these lines I will be happy to second and remove my proposal for changing Stock class to blinky. Although Les has come at it from the other direction it is basically achieving what I wanted to achieve, giving the Eco classes a bit of a step up before hitting the timing speedo classes.
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 25, 2011 20:00:52 GMT
Hmn tyres, tyres, tyres. I would be be happy to run Ross in a combined 15T & 17.5 blinky class, if it were fair - I have no idea if 15T is as fast as a 17.5.
But personally I would not want to buy different tyres as Ross normally gets Craig's hand me downs.
BUT I do think, as I have already posted, we really need the regular Eco/Pro Eco driver input to this (excepting Ian L of course). Maybe the drivers do not use the forum and maybe there ought to be a chat on this at the next championship meeting to see what the drivers think.
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