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Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2008 22:22:39 GMT
Well if everything is the same as the 008 what exactly is the point in changing? Oh apart from wanting an orange chassis. It's not the same as the 008 Ian, but it is an evolution not a redesign. It takes parts the team have tested during the season and incorporates them into the base kit, albeit most you buy off the shelf. So if like your 008 , as 99% of 008 drivers do, then it is questionable if it is worth buying the 009 because you can upgrade. I think we would agree that someone like Elliott could benefit (and is) from the changes but for us mere mortals.... To correct Ed the chassis deck is not the same, the battery cell positions have been optimised but as we all run Lipos, so what, except of course not everyone does run Lipos - and you can always swap out your 008 deck if that is an issue for you. So if you have an 008 its a bling decsion, if you have a TamyHPISchumi, its a great decsion
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Post by mattsedgley on Dec 10, 2008 23:36:34 GMT
Notice he didn't mention Scythe in the great decision bit just there!!
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Post by TryHard on Dec 11, 2008 9:09:42 GMT
Well if everything is the same as the 008 what exactly is the point in changing? Oh apart from wanting an orange chassis. It's not the same as the 008 Ian, but it is an evolution not a redesign. It takes parts the team have tested during the season and incorporates them into the base kit, albeit most you buy off the shelf. So if like your 008 , as 99% of 008 drivers do, then it is questionable if it is worth buying the 009 because you can upgrade. I think we would agree that someone like Elliott could benefit (and is) from the changes but for us mere mortals.... To correct Ed the chassis deck is not the same, the battery cell positions have been optimised but as we all run Lipos, so what, except of course not everyone does run Lipos - and you can always swap out your 008 deck if that is an issue for you. So if you have an 008 its a bling decsion, if you have a TamyHPISchumi, its a great decsion Hmm, let me remeber what car won the worlds... oh yeah, not an Xray (and they still haven't won one, in any class), And how many have the big blue one... yup, 3 out of 5, (414, 415 and 416)... As for the cell position, I wouldn't call "• Battery slots on chassis moved slightly outwards for better clearance between batteries and spur gear" an optimised chassis for LiPo... more of a correction of a previous oversight!
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 9:41:19 GMT
We could debate the relevance of the worlds compared to the British clubman, his tracks and choice of motor/cell class,but numbers speak volumes?
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Post by oldtimeracer on Dec 11, 2008 10:59:22 GMT
Does it all really make any difference what car/chassis you use as long as you are happy with it?
This seems to be degrading into a "mine is better than yours" thread.
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Post by TryHard on Dec 11, 2008 11:03:04 GMT
hehe... hence the
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 12:37:40 GMT
Ed, an Xray team driver, or Mario, made the comment on the forum that the slots had been repositioned longtitudinally to give a better 5 cell balance; appreciate the Xray website only mentions outward movment to move the 6 pack cells further away form the pinion, which was a pretty tight clearance on the 008 and drew some vociferous complaints on the 008 launch.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 12:39:57 GMT
Mr Chairman I think my fun toungue in cheek thread has been hijacked
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 12:45:12 GMT
It was after all meant to be a degrading mine is better than yours thread , not which is the fastest car in the World ;D
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Post by oldtimeracer on Dec 11, 2008 13:38:13 GMT
It was after all meant to be a degrading mine is better than yours thread ;D I guess it was successful then.
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 14:29:33 GMT
No such ideas at the moment Les. Current plan is to run the 008s with ECS and less rotating mass at the rear. Sorry Pete,just spotted this post....Less rotating mass at the rear!..whats new in this direction? lighter rear diff?
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Post by keitheroonie on Dec 11, 2008 18:31:21 GMT
Mr Chairman I think my fun toungue in cheek thread has been hijacked Pete, as if you didn't know it would end up like this ;D ;D ;D The problem is now you seem to have united the Purples, blues, reds and golds, they seem to have found common ground and forged an alliance. A large, multi-coloured and brushless army, now stand together to fight for what they believe in Oh! and it aint no Xray ;D ;D ;D
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 20:05:53 GMT
All done in good fun,we all love a bit of "car wars"..deep down I think Pete thrives on the stick we give him.. ;D ;D ;D Every car has its issues,if we could take all the best bits from each make to manufacture the perfect drive we would all buy one..how boring would that be
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 20:09:26 GMT
No such ideas at the moment Les. Current plan is to run the 008s with ECS and less rotating mass at the rear. Sorry Pete,just spotted this post....Less rotating mass at the rear!..whats new in this direction? lighter rear diff? Ah now there is an interesting question. No, its due to new lighter drive shafts and drive axles that are standard on the 009 but you can upgrade the 008. 38% and 35% lighter Now the question is interesting because of course when the 008 was released a new composite lighter diff was announced that as like the spool did not need drive shaft blades. It was not ready so they shipped kits with alu diff foc. And that has never changed and this new composite diff seems to have disappeared. They did announce earlier in the year that it was due to unprecedneted calls on the moulding dept. and apologised but I have neve seen anything more about it. Mind you unlike all the other Xray diffs it was not adjustable in situ in the car so I never fancied it anyway plus I do not think it had the Xray diff covers (could be wrong), another reason for not fancying it if correct.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 20:18:41 GMT
All done in good fun,we all love a bit of "car wars"..deep down I think Pete thrives on the stick we give him.. ;D ;D ;D Every car has its issues,if we could take all the best bits from each make to manufacture the perfect drive we would all buy one..how boring would that be
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 20:25:44 GMT
Hi Pete,this is not a wind up...reducing the reciprocating mass is always a good thing especialy with diffs,pinions,spools etc etc but is going to the expence of special drive shafts worth it ?..I can understand for the front "IF" they reduce lock chatter, but for the rear???..I would rather spend my money on the latest motor or speedo.
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Post by Reuben on Dec 11, 2008 21:06:56 GMT
rotating mass is OK, if its completely even around a center point that doesn't move.
interestingly even though the weight may be 35% lighter on these parts (at a static point) the forces will be hugely less (on the lighter driveshafts) once the mass is rotating compared to a heavyer one?.... so I think they may definitly be worth it. but then lighter more expensive drive-shafts usually wear out ALOT quicker.
Ide be interested to see how they change the drive of the car, whether craig feels a noticable difference - and whether this is at top speed or acceleration.
Keep us posted
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 11, 2008 21:08:43 GMT
Who knows is a fair answer Les. Some of the top drivers are seeing increased performance from the 009, which is combination of small improvements. Now are they saying that because they are sponsored? Becuse they want to justify the outlay? Because it is true - doest hat have any relevance to the club driver? And it doesn't come with the ECS drives which do reduce lock chatter.
The theory is right, but... I guess the only way to really know is to make the investment and find out, or bend a couple of them so you have to buy them anyway;D
Craig certainly felt an improvement when we fitted the alu shocks and then the asphalt top deck; he has got nothing to prove as I am the mug who buys the stuff!
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 21:36:44 GMT
rotating mass is OK, if its completely even around a center point that doesn't move. ..would one be talking about Gyroscopic effects here by any chance,this was very noticeable when using high reving mod motors in shaft drive cars with in-line motors..in cars such as the TC3 ..from a few years ago!..us older experienced racers used to call it "incorrectly"torque steer IMHO...Resiprocating mass(fly wheel effect) is worth removing from,firstly high reving larger diameter parts first befor small diameter moving items such as drive shafts,ie..lighter weight pinions,lighter spur gear carriers,spools and diff out drives!
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 11, 2008 21:51:11 GMT
Who knows is a fair answer Les. Craig certainly felt an improvement when we fitted the alu shocks and then the asphalt top deck; he has got nothing to prove as I am the mug who buys the stuff! Stick the new shafts in the front Paint the old rears silver and say nothing...suprise Craig and stick a BL in with the money saved from the rear shafts ;D ;D ;D...good luck with what ever you try
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Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 12, 2008 0:36:31 GMT
rotating mass is OK, if its completely even around a center point that doesn't move. I've no idea about rotating masses, you're gonna have to explain why.
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 12, 2008 7:54:37 GMT
rotating mass is OK, if its completely even around a center point that doesn't move. I've no idea about rotating masses, you're gonna have to explain why. Ok but putting it crudely....If parts such as pullys, spools,diff outdrives etc etc are made of HT steel rather than plastic/Alloy or light weight composites the drive train will have a high rotating/heavier mass,making the car slow to accelerate (more weight to get moving quickly... and slow down) Full size racing engines lighten the crank shaft,piston,con rods and flywheel considerably to inprove RPM pick up Most of todays cars have adequate light drive trains but there are companys who offer light weight replacement parts that are sometimes weaker but could be an advantage especially in the stock classes to gain "that little bit more" Example ..the Cyclone TC front multi spool is rather a large heavy lump,the worlds edition spool is much neater and some what lighter,TIR do and even lighter version,there is also very light one piece spur gear/Ley shaft available too Some may think that a few grams lighter here and there wont make much difference...It might do??
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Post by oldtimeracer on Dec 12, 2008 9:21:24 GMT
Are we talking feel good factor here or noticable difference in performance? I mean of course for the average club racer and in relation to the cost of doing all this?
Not that "cost" or "need" ever comes into it of course....
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 12, 2008 9:41:43 GMT
Are we talking feel good factor here or noticable difference in performance? I mean of course for the average club racer and in relation to the cost of doing all this? Not that "cost" or "need" ever comes into it of course.... Too be honest Ian,dont know?...my club car is STD but my race car has the some of the option parts,I have yet to "back to back" them (timed)..but it importantly gives me peace of mind that I am doing my best to make the car quick ....as long as i can give one of those "blue things" a hard time on the track ,Im happy ;D....Hi Ed
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Post by Matt Haskell on Dec 12, 2008 10:29:41 GMT
Wasn't that an eminem song?
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Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 12, 2008 12:51:46 GMT
Thanks Les, I'd not considered rotational mass effecting acceleration etc.
Can Reuben explain what he means by OK when he says "rotating mass is OK, if its completely even around a center point that doesn't move".
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Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 12, 2008 12:54:37 GMT
my club car is STD but my race car has the some of the option parts,I have yet to "back to back" them (timed)..but it importantly gives me peace of mind that I am doing my best to make the car quick ....as long as i can give one of those "blue things" a hard time on the track ,Im happy ;D....Hi Ed You have a club car and a race car? And a spare car? And a wet car? I only have one car, no wonder I can't catch you ;-)
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 12, 2008 13:47:10 GMT
my club car is STD but my race car has the some of the option parts,I have yet to "back to back" them (timed)..but it importantly gives me peace of mind that I am doing my best to make the car quick ....as long as i can give one of those "blue things" a hard time on the track ,Im happy ;D....Hi Ed You have a club car and a race car? And a spare car? And a wet car? I only have one car, no wonder I can't catch you ;-) Cause th're Purple ...just three...the 008's a wet/spare club car
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Post by oldtimeracer on Dec 12, 2008 13:54:25 GMT
Yeah but Simon just remember this. With only one car you and I don't have that difficult decision to make before every race as to which car you are going to use, which car is working best, which car is waterproof and which car to take the electrics out of!
It is just much easier for us.
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 12, 2008 14:14:14 GMT
Yeah but Simon just remember this. With only one car you and I don't have that difficult decision to make before every race as to which car you are going to use, which car is working best, which car is waterproof and which car to take the electrics out of! It is just much easier for us. Sez he with more than one
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