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Post by mattsedgley on May 25, 2009 19:04:22 GMT
Righty then! I've only been doing this thing for five minutes in comparison to many of you so i'm after some tips here! Sorex 32s, when brand new out of the packet have a lovely line of flashing on them from the injection moulding process. Scrubbing tyres in is a must before you actually use them in a run, but... How do you scrub them in? do any of you use a dedicated tool? - or just a few laps of a quiet track? scotch bright? what do the top guys do? gwesty? Dogman? any top tips we can all share around? Matt  |
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Post by gwesty on May 25, 2009 19:38:34 GMT
hey matt , tyre prep is one of the most over looked parts in racing as for scrubbing ur tyres in , y would u do that  ? tyres are always best wen new and shiny . all we do is derib (using a deribber) them then clean and addative them (using wfx ) then there is , how long and at what temp do u bake for addative b4 ? during ? wipe dry b4 run??? |
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Post by mattsedgley on May 25, 2009 20:57:32 GMT
thanks for the info... what do you use to take the burr of the tyre then? is there a tool i'm missing from my essentials kit!? I've seen John Pape and Ollie Jefferies use a little electric machine to spin the tyre up and then scotch bright and brake cleaner? I think?? you've also got a pm!  Mattt |
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 25, 2009 21:15:31 GMT
I've only ever had new tyres out of the packet about twice , and they seemed to go very well 'fresh'!! Just do my normal prep on them. - put additive on tire - immediately wipe off with a cloth - tyre warmers on F50/R55 - cook for 15-20 minutes - remove warmers a few minutes before race - race So I effectively clean and treat them in one step. |
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Post by gwesty on May 25, 2009 21:20:07 GMT
matt , pm back
simon by doing that ur not softening the rubber ! also y warmer rears ?
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 25, 2009 21:25:31 GMT
Hmm, I kind of put it on thick, and don't totally wipe it off. They're still kinda greasy by the time the warmers come off.
What's a better way?
Hmm, why warmer rears, I'm not sure, I think it was a winter habit that I carried on with, it's a very good point though!
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Post by lesbaldry on May 25, 2009 21:32:16 GMT
New rubber..Remove Flashing with Dremel and small "ball" stone. Clean tyre to remove release agent Add prefererd addative and Bake at 60 deg for 15 mins allow to cool and wipe of excesss As for the rest(amount of goo and temp) it depends apon track and grip level Depending apon track I sometimes go for quite a higher front temp than rear to allow me to dive inside on the first bend of a final..if I get the chance  |
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Post by oldtimeracer on May 26, 2009 9:58:28 GMT
Oh dear, sounds like I have been doing it all wrong all these years ;D
I just do two quick practice laps on new tyres and then race them. Seems to work for me.
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Post by TryHard on May 26, 2009 12:46:42 GMT
I go with Glenn and Les, De-burr the mould line off, either with dremel+sanding stone, or a bit of sand paper if desperate. Then wipe with WD40, and then clean off. Apply additive, then warmers for 20odd mins. Just before the run, remove the warmers, wipe the surface clean, then re-apply the warmers. Warmers removed just before the run Temp wise, depends on the ambient, if it's toastie, I'll be at 40ish, cooler, I go hotter HiH Ed |
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Post by Reuben on May 26, 2009 12:58:32 GMT
I am probably doing this ALL wrong.
But new tyres get a 2-3 min run fresh out of the packet to rub away that shiny layer. Once done, tyres are then cleaned with a little Cillit Bang, addative applied, heated at 50-60 for 15 minutes, Wiped and then re-heated 10-5 mins before run at 40.
From then on after each run the tyre gets cleaned with Cillit Bang, little addative applied and heated for 10 minutes prior to run at 45, then 5 mins prior ill wipe away excess addative and re-apply heat until time to race.
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Post by gwesty on May 26, 2009 16:16:30 GMT
why would you want to rub away the "shiny" layer ? thats the best part about new tyres !!!
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Post by Reuben on May 26, 2009 16:29:15 GMT
because my experience with shiny 28's is a pirouette on the first 3 corners. But that may be cos thers no addative on them when i scrub them in with a few laps
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Post by mattsedgley on May 26, 2009 17:02:45 GMT
Glenn, I must be being a tool.. I can't find that tool anywhere on muchmore is there any chance you can post a link?  Matt |
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Post by gwesty on May 26, 2009 17:55:43 GMT
because my experience with shiny 28's is a pirouette on the first 3 corners. But that may be cos thers no addative on them when i scrub them in with a few laps that kinda indicates either a tweaked chassis or set up fault ! new tyres will give you even grip to all 4 wheels , the car should be on rails ! sorex tyres are best for 2 runs ! (except for cotswolds) they are ok after this but the ultimate grip will have gone |
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Post by TryHard on May 26, 2009 23:02:43 GMT
I think whats happening Reubes, is that in thoose 2-3 mins is your rubbing off the centre bead... I know it sounds daft, but it DOES have an affect. Remove that, prep the tyres as you are, bolt em on, and you'll be fine And deffo agree with what Glenn said again... for ultimate grip at West London, you needed to be on new boots... it was pretty obvious who was running new versus one run old. Then again, WLRC is notoriously hard on tyres... roll on Cotswolds HiH Ed |
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 27, 2009 0:08:28 GMT
I've never taken the beads off new tyres, mainly cos I rarely get new ones!
Time to start carrying the dremel maybe?
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Post by lesbaldry on May 27, 2009 7:10:48 GMT
Reubs if you dont remove the flashing it will be like drift racing until it wears off. Personally I dont like cleaning the tyres at any stage with a very strong detergent such as Cilit bang,to me it removes any chemicals in the tyre/ additive that may have soaked in,I prefer to use something inert like a alcohol based cleaner...also any Petroleum based fluid "thinners too" will eventually remove the chemicals from the rubber and turn them hard! Drop a piece of old tyre into a petroleum based fluid for a few hours and it will swell and go sticky but remove it and let it dry for a day and it will shrink smaller than the original size and go very hard...  |
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Post by TryHard on May 27, 2009 8:03:02 GMT
Thats part the reason I use WD40, it's an oil/solvent based lubricant Doing a bit of research into it, WD uses Kerosene (the solvent), and oil within it's formulation. The oil acts as the carrier/protective film after the solvent vaps off (hence it's water replance). So using it to clean tyes is pretty handy, IMO, as the solvent just evaporates if left, and the tyres have lubricants to keep the chemicals in! Don't forget as well, most of our outdoor additives are oil based (which is why indoors I use additive to clean with, rather than WD), so keeping the same base from cleaner to additve is pretty good Cillet Bang is acid based, and is pretty nasty stuff like Les says... However, I don't really by the turning things hard arguement, as if it's a cleaner, you should only be wiping on and off, not leaving it on the surface! Some interesting reading for those bored enough  WD40 InfoCillet Bang infoHiH Ed |
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Post by mattsedgley on May 27, 2009 12:46:35 GMT
Glenn I still can't see that tool, could you send a link to it if you get a chance? Many thanks |
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Post by Reuben on May 27, 2009 13:04:35 GMT
WD40 it is from now on! Bye Bye Cillit Bang! Cleans the tyre up good and proper though and only ever used 2 squirts on a rag then wipe over the tyres . |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 27, 2009 13:27:58 GMT
I would'nt Reubs WD 40 is Kerosine/Kerosene(Paraffin) based and is a distillation of Petroleum and will damage Rubber....It will temporally soften the rubber through bringing the chemical content to the surface,but continual cleaning with WD 40 will eventually dry out the rubber turning it hard....If you need to clean rubber with out any detrimental effects use Ethanol or Isopropanol.theses alcohol based solvents are two of the only fluids that are allowed and must be used when overhauling/cleaning ABS/Braking systems...for obvious safety reasons |
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Post by TryHard on May 27, 2009 14:44:13 GMT
Like I said, I dont really buy that... mainly cause my tyres would be long gone before any degredation of the rubber occured! It's a wipe on/wipe straight off action, the Kerosene will have evaporated before it has any chance to dry it out... and then coating it again with nice lubey additive replaces the lost chemicals (don't tell me you additive your ABS cables Les  ) Now if it was soaking in it, it'd be a whole different ball game |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 27, 2009 15:29:06 GMT
Like I said, I dont really buy that... mainly cause my tyres would be long gone before any degredation of the rubber occured! It's a wipe on/wipe straight off action, the Kerosene will have evaporated before it has any chance to dry it out... and then coating it again with nice lubey additive replaces the lost chemicals (don't tell me you additive your ABS cables Les ) Now if it was soaking in it, it'd be a whole different ball game ;D ;D ;D....I thought that might fire you up Ed ....seriously I used to use it years ago as you did as a cleaner and the side afects were to make them feel slightly sticky..yes?...but a batch of tyres that were repeatadly cleaned this way went hard on the outer skin when left for a month or so. ABS valve blocks are full of small rubber seals and they must not be cleaned in any petroleum based solvent. As apprentices we used to drop a wiper blade into the Kerosene wash tank,the next day it used to swell to twice the size and become very plyable"spongy"it looked very odd ..leave it to dry for a day or two and it used to shrink smaller than the original size and go very hard...true chap!!...I tried this with a piece of tyre and the same thing happened.. Im no chemist but I think solvents like WD40 bring the Sorexene (the chemical that makes our tyres plyable and sticky) to the surface,continual use must in the end do some damage??...especialy if your like Simon who make a set last a year ;D |
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Post by yellowshark on May 27, 2009 19:57:31 GMT
If you need to clean rubber with out any detrimental effects use Ethanol or Isopropanol.theses alcohol based solvents are two of the only fluids that are allowed and must be used when overhauling/cleaning ABS/Braking systems...for obvious safety reasons Can you provide example product names Les? I use MuchMore engine cleaner. |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 27, 2009 22:22:32 GMT
If you need to clean rubber with out any detrimental effects use Ethanol or Isopropanol.theses alcohol based solvents are two of the only fluids that are allowed and must be used when overhauling/cleaning ABS/Braking systems...for obvious safety reasons Can you provide example product names Les? I use MuchMore engine cleaner. I use Wurth Brake component cleaner(aerosol).....most of the lads seem to like it "good motor/bearing cleaner too"...I shall be getting a box for the club soon for us to sell...it works out a lot cheaper than Motor cleaner. Your local chemist will sell Isopropanol (bottled)...he may ask you what you will be using it for,say its for cleaning electrical componants...It an accelorent that can be used for other naughty purposes so its normally sold in small quantities 500ml |
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Matt
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