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Post by Reuben on Dec 14, 2009 12:22:48 GMT
Heres something to bake your noodle on a cold Monday. I always go by if i need more grip/action on one end of the car then I would drop the inner camber link - aka more steering, drop front. More rear end - drop rear. Now from reading xxx main this suggests that dropping the inner camber link stops that end of the car rolling as much in the corner, does this then produce more side-bite and pressure onto the wheels generating the grip? Now I run with +2mm on the rear camber link for the Mi4, but other Mi4 drivers at the track on a cold day were running a lot less, i didnt get chance to experiment with it Sunday. But i wonder if that was causing the car to bite down to hard on corner 1 and loose traction, as it needed to roll a bit more? Matt I noticed when driving yours, your car did roll arround corner 1 much better than mine and i was able to keep speed. discuss  |
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Post by Simon Crabb on Dec 14, 2009 13:01:55 GMT
And that pretty much sums up why I've got bored of touring car racing...
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 14, 2009 13:36:15 GMT
Dropping the inner link is actually raising the roll center point but importantly it alters the camber roll angle allowing more rubber to contact the tarmac giving more steering into a corner ...from this point on the geometry starts to become really complicated Ackerman and KPI/Castor, start to play a big roll (don't ask,don't know enough   ...Put it this way if I need a tad more grip in a hurry at either end I do as you do, lower the top links.,if that dont work I lower the wishbone pivots...this can be easily done on a Photon  ;D Ive always found keeping the wish bone and camber link more Parallel keeps the car flatter with a little better stability through turns but the car will suddenly brake away with out warning at either end. |
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 14, 2009 15:34:00 GMT
Reuben I think I know what you are trying to achieve..get more of a balanced steering feel???..balanced steering =balanced rear!
The use of a "rubbery" C hub to alter steering geometry under load to gain more initial steering seems very wrong to me,this is one thing that put me off the Mi4 and its multiple choice flexi hubs.....try what I ran on sunday,keep the steering/suspension parts to an equal flex and work on the chassis flex to balance the car?...Sunday was the best I have ever had my steering with the Mi4
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Post by Reuben on Dec 14, 2009 16:11:02 GMT
Yeh kinda. Its more useful going forwards, roll centers seem to be very powerful and something i want to understand , getting the car to roll enough to get just the right amount of grip without scrubbing speed, but also having enough to hit the throttle early out of the corners. |
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 14, 2009 16:32:21 GMT
Yeh kinda. Its more useful going forwards, roll centers seem to be very powerful and something i want to understand , getting the car to roll enough to get just the right amount of grip without scrubbing speed, but also having enough to hit the throttle early out of the corners. Sounds like the Holy Grail that we are all after ;D To my mind ,It can be an advantage to lower or raise the camber links along with the wish bone pivots at the same amount in some cases/conditions,I cant undestand why the Mi4 has fixed lower positions???....different roll centers front and rear can make a big difference in some conditions I tried to get into the finites of roll points/centers/contact area's some while ago,but there are so so many other factors involved I gave up and stuck to the....fidle and find out method ....simple's just get a car thats fast through corners  lol One things for sure though dont believe every thing you read,interpretations varie!! |
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Post by Reuben on Dec 14, 2009 17:23:23 GMT
with the alloy blocks you can change the wishbone height - i believe, but to what extent i havent looked. I cant imagine its much - 1-2mm?
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Post by mattsedgley on Dec 14, 2009 17:23:32 GMT
I've not had chance to read all the posts fully.. but i'll add I removed quite a bit of rear end droop from the car which allowed me to run turn one full chat.. i lost out slightly on top of the banking because of this tho...
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Post by gwesty on Dec 14, 2009 18:11:20 GMT
lol ! |
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 14, 2009 19:46:17 GMT
lol ! Ok im up for a pee take and rise to the bait ...what do you mean by !lol.................  ;D |
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Post by gwesty on Dec 14, 2009 19:57:26 GMT
just the "your car feels better than mine " bit ! |
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Post by lesbaldry on Dec 14, 2009 20:06:54 GMT
just the "your car feels better than mine " bit ! Ok ;D |
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 14, 2009 21:40:02 GMT
Shame your brakes don't work though Matt ;D
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Post by mattsedgley on Dec 14, 2009 22:54:13 GMT
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 17, 2009 23:29:04 GMT
Sorry Pete I was assuming an ex UK champion driving a superior XRAY with a 13.5 and wets could carry more speed through the corner than my inexperienced fingers, with a 17.5 and a "CR@P" SCHUMACHER, on slicks...  Did you play with camber links on the Xray?? ;D If you mean on Sunday,then no. Play is really the wrong word, never really taken the time for some systematic trials. But have changed the front upper links on a couple of occasions. And indeed since August we have been running with the change we made at eastbourne which transferred to Bashley nicely. |
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...Put it this way if I need a tad more grip in a hurry at either end I do as you do, lower the top links.,if that dont work I lower the wishbone pivots...this can be easily done on a Photon 
;D
lol
;D
