10.5 zero timing

[darrenoakley]

Just thought I would start a thread to see what everyone's thoughts are on running 10.5 zero timing at Bashley. I am keen to try it so have put one in the Xray and set the speedo on the zero timing FW (Flashing LEDs). Run it up and down the street for 5 mins and it feels great without the boost just using the motors power so am going to try and get a practise down the track at some point before the outdoor weds nights start.
I have set my FDR at 5.5 as a start.
This is just an exercise and i am not proposing it be a class or anything.

Who else fancy s giving it a go then. Jamie and Martin are interested anyone else up for it ?

[Reuben]

10.5 no timing use to run with pro-stock back in the day of brushed/brushless transition. You will find it similar to a 13.5 boosted in top end speed, but it will have more grunt and more throttle feel as your not using boost.

you can run it in with Open TC no problem. if you get the car setup well to handle the extra grunt im sure it will be fun.

5.5 is also a good ratio to start with and you might find that you stay there.

I only ran 10.5 non-boosted once at bashley and at the time it seemed a little to much for my ability, but I might be tempted to try it again now. The only thing that puts me off is the heat generated. The plus side to all this new tech is that I can make my 13.5 fast without it getting about 50-60 degrees.. going back to non-timing you start pushing the temps to get the speed

[yellowshark]

I can offer some advice on FDR but am conused with the scenario. are we

[yellowshark]

...talking about speedos with timing or with variable timing. If the former you dont want to program with 0, proabbly set to about mode 4 for starters - depends on speedo- and I suspect you want to add another tooth and get to 5.2ish for Bashley.If it s a grunty motor you might get another tooth on.

If you are talking about variable timing speedo with no software timing added then I have no idea whatsoever ;D - we run our 10,5 at circa 8.2 but zero software timing? then maybe in the 5s is right

The above assumes you have not ladled on oodles of engine timing. Sitting here I cannot remember what timing we used on the pre NG speedos but I can look it up tomorrow. If we are talking NG speedos then I think we run in the region 20-25* but it is diffult to know for most motors what the factory setting is. We reduce the factory timing advance on our X12s

[darrenoakley]

Was talking about the blinky mode on gen 3 speedos Pete. So all you can adjust would be throttle curve and braking and stuff like that. Basically no speedo timing.
I am not bothered if I am in with boosted 10.5 though but can't really see that being any faster round than 13.5 boosted tbh. For me it's not a see how fast I can go but more of a different feel and delivery so may try 13.5 no TOTF also. I just like the predicability you get from no timing.

[yellowshark]

That's the rub There is no doubt, from our testing, that NG 10.5 on an XRAY 009 is faster than NG 13.5 around Bashley, the problem is getting it around faster!!!!

[darrenoakley]

Yeah thats what I was trying to get at mate. Its ok the thing being faster but apart from a few (very few drivers me not being one of them) I cant see most of us actually gaining from 10.5 boosted as opposed to 13.5 boosted. But tbh that is probably better for another thread if you fancy opening one up mate.
I want to get close to 13.5 boosted speeds but with no timing.

[yellowshark]

There are a number of factors here, different but interrelated, that have caused us to struggle to beat our best non NG 10.5 times when running NG 10.5. Indeed we are not far off our non NG 10.5 with an NG 13.5, very close in fact!

So that suggests you ought to be able to compete with NG 13.5s!

[darrenoakley]

Ok I am down at Bashley for an hour (the only self employment benefit ) testing 10.5 zero timing and I have to agree with Jamie as there is no way this is going to be as quick as 13.5 boosted. It is about the same as 17.5 boosted but maybe even a bit slower on the straight. I am geared at 5.5 and after a timed 5 min the motor is all ready about as hot as I would like to push it. And I am not that quick. It's an x12 so have considered they can go hot hot hot and it's got the 4 dot insert that seems about normal. Drives better than 17.5 in my opinion though. So up for wed night heat if anyone else fancies a change.

[yellowshark]

Well that proves then I think that an NG with zero timing is a totally different beast to a non NG. I suspect you would be better of removing 50% (say) of your timing instead of 100%.

Because..... I remember now that when I first went to Aldershot with an NG and my first time with an X12, I also took off all the timing to focus on getting the infield gearing right, yeah it was a tortoise. After a couple of hours fluffing around with different pinions I put some timing on, I think I ended with about 20 boost and 6 or 7 turbo(wouldn’t need that for Bashley) and things were a whole lot better. In race trim I ended up with about 50 boost/16 turbo and a bit higher on the gearing – moving form 7.2ish to 8.2ish

So to summarise I think you need to put some timing on – you may find you reach a happy point.

Also the X12s like to rev so I think I would push it to at least 7.0 and give it a try. We run 8.2ish at Bashley but that is fully loaded with timing

[darrenoakley]

Yeah would need to have timing to gear it any higher as it was topping out at the end of the straight. Fast enough for fun though and really nice to handle. T3 felt really good without timing,not that it doesn't normally.
So in conclusion 10.5 zero timing is fast enough without being a handfull but not a match for 13.5 TOTF profiles. Would be a nice heat if a few of us were up for it but not going to brake any track records,well certainly not me anyway.

[yellowshark]

OK we will run NG 10.5 so you have something else to compare to