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Post by yellowshark on May 3, 2011 10:20:50 GMT
Do you remember that opening scene in Wind of the Willows when Toad encounters his first car and goes all ga ga.
Well I have just this minute discovered ultrasonic cleaners, and thinking of that pile of bearings......
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Post by darrenoakley on May 3, 2011 12:08:06 GMT
Have you got one then Pete.?Maybe a cleaning service could be an idea  I have a stack also mate. Use so much motor spray cleaning them. |
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Post by yellowshark on May 3, 2011 17:54:33 GMT
Nope Darren, I have always found my 35mm film canister to be more than adequate ;D.
I am tempted though, looks a fun toy. There seems to be differing views in the net as to whether the agitation involved might damage the balls against the race - double dutch to me really.
Has anyone ever used one?
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Post by darrenoakley on May 3, 2011 18:21:29 GMT
There only £25.00 in Maplins. But me thinks it could be one of those buy and try then wave goodbye purchases so wont be forking out just yet. Also the price that bearings are these days its not worth the time.
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Post by yellowshark on May 3, 2011 20:18:44 GMT
Also the price that bearings are these days its not worth the time. You obviously dont use XRAY bearings then Darren ;D |
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Post by darrenoakley on May 3, 2011 20:55:04 GMT
Did but have gradually replaced them with TOP ones i had from the Photon. I have also had a couple of Xray bearings fall apart and judging buy the quality of the rest of the T3 i am very surprised at that. |
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Post by yellowshark on May 3, 2011 22:40:00 GMT
I bought a set of wheel bearings from Bearing Boys recently. I shall be interested to see how they match up against the XRAY ones.
We had a rear wheel bearing go once but to be fair that is one bearing over 4 seasons
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Post by Reuben on May 3, 2011 23:18:35 GMT
I blew 3 Xray kit bearings sunday one in a rear wheel and two in the layshaft where there is no side load :S anyway I will be looking for some cheaper metal shielded bearings where the shields dont fall expand and fall out when they get hot. I tried one of these ultra-sonic cleaners, didnt really do to much tbh. I found the best way to clean the bearings is to remove the metal shields and spray them through.... usually a good shake in a tub of brake cleaner a few tiems does the trick and if they are still notchy after that, the time and effort it takes to get it clean again, you might aswell replace it. |
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Post by darrenoakley on May 4, 2011 6:59:24 GMT
That's exactly what happened to mine mate. I prefer metal shield type anyway.
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Post by lesbaldry on May 4, 2011 9:38:03 GMT
I tried one of these ultra-sonic cleaners, didnt really do to much tbh. I found the best way to clean the bearings is to remove the metal shields and spray them through.... usually a good shake in a tub of brake cleaner a few tiems does the trick and if they are still notchy after that, the time and effort it takes to get it clean again, you might aswell replace it. +1........TC6 kit hub bearings ain't up to much either,they are a little smaller than average and tend to snap the outer cage,but Ive had no probs since replacing them with Reality's brgs. A good quality oil should prolong life and perhaps a slightly heavier wt oil this time of year too?? This may help?..For the extra loading of Pro stock speeds Ive been using a top quality 5w/30 fully synth eng oil.Especially in the heavily loaded brgs such as hubs and spur gear carriers/shaft (NOT!! diff carriers or the small pully brgs") ,the drive train still runs free and the Brgs seem to be lasting longer. I also tend to fully immerse the brgs in "warmed" oil rather than use a dropper,then let the brgs cool and drain out on some kitchen towel befor fitting,this way I know my balls are properly lubed  |
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Post by yellowshark on May 4, 2011 9:53:46 GMT
I blew 3 Xray kit bearings sunday I tried one of these ultra-sonic cleaners, didnt really do to much tbh. I found the best way to clean the bearings is to remove the metal shields and spray them through.... . Thnaks for the info Reubs; I think I will put the money aside for the new Tarantino DVD  |
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Post by yellowshark on May 4, 2011 9:58:04 GMT
I blew 3 Xray kit bearings sunday . Blimey, if you were talking drive shaft pins I would be more open minded but I am gobsmacked. You should post that on the XRAY forum and ask XRAY to respond. I accept the fact we do not carpet race but I cannot immediateley see why that would reduce bearing longevity, steering knuckles yes |
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Post by yellowshark on May 4, 2011 10:01:20 GMT
Of course, I am assuming you all check your XRAY bearings on a regular basis
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Post by Reuben on May 4, 2011 10:30:36 GMT
Pete this is me we are talking about.... my bearings are always smooth and free, and my car is always checked - even if it looks like i do nothing to it on race days  . last time i went to the Xray guys about my diff issue, they just told me I was basically stupid and broke it myself..... but since buying a new diff its built perfect EVERY time using the same method as before.... so im still a little bitter about that and lack faith in Xrays customer support. They would just tell me that my bearings werent cleaned or something. thats interesting stuff there Les, Im still using that bearing oil you recommended years ago (Singer), it has no label about what type or wt of oil it is, but its quite thin..... |
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Post by yellowshark on May 4, 2011 10:34:26 GMT
Pete this is me we are talking about.... . Yeah I know ;D Don't worry, I will post on your(anonymous) behalf |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 4, 2011 21:53:53 GMT
last time i went to the Xray guys about my diff issue, they just told me I was basically stupid and broke it myself..... but since buying a new diff its built perfect EVERY time using the same method as before.... so im still a little bitter about that and lack faith in Xrays customer support. They would just tell me that my bearings werent cleaned or something. thats interesting stuff there Les, Im still using that bearing oil you recommended years ago (Singer), it has no label about what type or wt of oil it is, but its quite thin..... Hi Rubes.....Diff issue  ...Hmmm thats not good chap neither are you a newby or a fool  The Singer sewing machine oil, its good quality made for high speed moving parts but as you say thin! so its perfect for the free running transmissions needed in the early stock classes (the "old slow"17.5 days at Bish Bash)..but I felt its started to let me down with the higher loads of Pro/super stock unless I was prepared to re-bearing my car after every "hard" meeting...So far the method I posted earlier hasn't let me down. I can remember Matt S having some hub and ley shaft Brg Failures with his schuy,I did warn him but he seemed to prefer the very slightly free'er thin sewing machine oil. Just a note on Brgs,Mr Lloyde may want to step in here...I believe they come in tolerance grades from 1 to 6 so tend to double in price as they go. no doubt manufactures will use the cheapest....I sourced some "high tolerance" Brgs a little while back and to be honest they didn't seem to last any longer they just had less slop....any brg will "cook" without lube. |
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Post by darrenoakley on May 5, 2011 7:04:16 GMT
I am trying the Hudy red bearing grease at the moment and it is really thick so need proper working into the bearings and they don't free spin like a thiner dropper oil. So far I am impressed with it as once it is worked there are smooth as silk. Good stuff but a pain to apply. Also high temp so use it on my motor bearings too.
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Post by ginge on May 5, 2011 7:29:06 GMT
so then boys all in all whats the best oil for the bearings? i've been useing much more spin lube and at the moment no probs with it.
Ginge
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Post by lesbaldry on May 5, 2011 9:20:00 GMT
I am trying the Hudy red bearing grease at the moment and it is really thick so need proper working into the bearings and they don't free spin like a thiner dropper oil. So far I am impressed with it as once it is worked there are smooth as silk. Good stuff but a pain to apply. Also high temp so use it on my motor bearings too. Hi Orange2....Be a bit weary of just using grease Darren,its fine for larger slower moving brgs (ful size), but it can centrifuge to just the outer cage on our tiny high speed brgs,feel "gummy" causing lots of drag and be a pain to get into the brgs . Should you want to use it try heating the grease in a large serving spoon with a heat gun to turn the grease liquid then drop the brgs in......this is what I do with the thicker oils I use in the heavier loaded brgs.....A good brg shield can be a double edged sword,cant get the dust out and cant get the lube in Ginge A high quality sewing machine oil is fine but I avoid cheep "shed type" oils such as 3in1...the thiner oils such as sewing machine oils do give good lubricating quality's and a free running transmission but will need very regular Brg maintenance due to the viscosity. With todays excess motor power theres reason why we cant use a heavier wt oil for reliability in the loaded brgs,the days of the drag free drive train to get that extra 2mph down the strait in stock are over! The extra speeds we have carry extra loads on our cars and it surprises me how well some brgs stand up to it,but I feel some of the stupidly smaller brgs especially fitted to some lay shafts/spur gears and some hubs (TC6) may need a heavier type of lube,or in regular brg failure cases a specialist lube such as STP (a thixotropic lube) that is designed to be mixed with regular oils to chemically coat and importantly "stick too" the brg surfaces giving better protection. Personally ide rather have reliability theses days than a "pit posing" super free running car, plus I like to have my balls regularly serviced |
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ianlloyd
Lapping the Back Markers
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Post by ianlloyd on May 5, 2011 9:41:31 GMT
As Les rightly says bearings in come in different tolerance grades (ABEC) the actual rating is shown below:
ABEC 1: 0.0075mm (0.000295")
ABEC 3: 0.0050mm (0.000197")
ABEC 5: 0.0035mm (0.000138")
ABEC 7: 0.0025mm (0.000098")
ABEC 9: 0.0012mm (0.000047")
The higher the rating the higher the price. In our applications I have found that ABEC 3 is fine, some will go to ABEC 5 but you have to be prepared to pay the price for that and in my opinion it is difficult to tell the difference.
Regarding oils my prefernce is a mid weight oil. Too thin an oil will just fling out and cause premature wear. Too thick an oil will also fling out but will stay in the outer race causing early failure of the inner race. I usually just replace the bearings regularly, they are cheap enough to not warrant spending huge amounts of time cleaning. In my opinion that is.
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Post by Reuben on May 5, 2011 9:51:48 GMT
Hi Rubes.....Diff issue ...Hmmm thats not good chap neither are you a newby or a fool im affraid I am both I am surprised with the layshaft failures, as the bearings as the same size as standard metric hub bearings, So I reckon it was a sheild failure in the heat and the heat of the bearings. |
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Post by martinchallis on May 5, 2011 18:09:27 GMT
nothing to do with the mod motor, and a pin dropping |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 5, 2011 20:26:46 GMT
nothing to do with the mod motor, and a pin dropping I dont think "one" or two others realize the serious extra loads mod puts on any car,especialy with the "stop start" corners of west London!! .....and me thinks Rubes is still learning in that area |
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Post by Reuben on May 5, 2011 21:18:19 GMT
indeed, its way to easy to spin up the tyres, adds a whole new dimension to racing..... didnt do to bad considering mixing it up with some decent names |
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Post by martinchallis on May 6, 2011 18:18:22 GMT
u did us proud reubes.... im loving watching you being kept mighty honest another day on 1 set of tyres  |
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Post by justchris on May 6, 2011 21:14:56 GMT
I am trying the Hudy red bearing grease at the moment and it is really thick so need proper working into the bearings and they don't free spin like a thiner dropper oil. So far I am impressed with it as once it is worked there are smooth as silk. Good stuff but a pain to apply. Also high temp so use it on my motor bearings too. Hi Orange2....Be a bit weary of just using grease Darren,its fine for larger slower moving brgs (ful size), but it can centrifuge to just the outer cage on our tiny high speed brgs,feel "gummy" causing lots of drag and be a pain to get into the brgs . Should you want to use it try heating the grease in a large serving spoon with a heat gun to turn the grease liquid then drop the brgs in......this is what I do with the thicker oils I use in the heavier loaded brgs.....A good brg shield can be a double edged sword,cant get the dust out and cant get the lube in Ginge A high quality sewing machine oil is fine but I avoid cheep "shed type" oils such as 3in1...the thiner oils such as sewing machine oils do give good lubricating quality's and a free running transmission but will need very regular Brg maintenance due to the viscosity. With todays excess motor power theres reason why we cant use a heavier wt oil for reliability in the loaded brgs,the days of the drag free drive train to get that extra 2mph down the strait in stock are over! The extra speeds we have carry extra loads on our cars and it surprises me how well some brgs stand up to it,but I feel some of the stupidly smaller brgs especially fitted to some lay shafts/spur gears and some hubs (TC6) may need a heavier type of lube,or in regular brg failure cases a specialist lube such as STP (a thixotropic lube) that is designed to be mixed with regular oils to chemically coat and importantly "stick too" the brg surfaces giving better protection. Personally ide rather have reliability theses days than a "pit posing" super free running car, plus I like to have my balls regularly serviced Les have read all the posts apart from mod what would you say would be a good interval for oiling/replacing bearings in pro eco and which ones would you recomend. |
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Post by lesbaldry on May 7, 2011 7:43:30 GMT
Hi Orange2....Be a bit weary of just using grease Darren,its fine for larger slower moving brgs (ful size), but it can centrifuge to just the outer cage on our tiny high speed brgs,feel "gummy" causing lots of drag and be a pain to get into the brgs . Should you want to use it try heating the grease in a large serving spoon with a heat gun to turn the grease liquid then drop the brgs in......this is what I do with the thicker oils I use in the heavier loaded brgs.....A good brg shield can be a double edged sword,cant get the dust out and cant get the lube in Ginge A high quality sewing machine oil is fine but I avoid cheep "shed type" oils such as 3in1...the thiner oils such as sewing machine oils do give good lubricating quality's and a free running transmission but will need very regular Brg maintenance due to the viscosity. With todays excess motor power theres reason why we cant use a heavier wt oil for reliability in the loaded brgs,the days of the drag free drive train to get that extra 2mph down the strait in stock are over! The extra speeds we have carry extra loads on our cars and it surprises me how well some brgs stand up to it,but I feel some of the stupidly smaller brgs especially fitted to some lay shafts/spur gears and some hubs (TC6) may need a heavier type of lube,or in regular brg failure cases a specialist lube such as STP (a thixotropic lube) that is designed to be mixed with regular oils to chemically coat and importantly "stick too" the brg surfaces giving better protection. Personally ide rather have reliability theses days than a "pit posing" super free running car, plus I like to have my balls regularly serviced Les have read all the posts apart from mod what would you say would be a good interval for oiling/replacing bearings in pro eco and which ones would you recomend. Hi Chris,Pro Eco does not put much of a load on the car due to it slower speeds but having a "free as poss" drive train using thin oils will be an advantage.The kit brgs are fine so it would be a waste of money to replace them with say Ceramic's or a higher grade. As for maint,personally after a meet I would remove the pinion and spin the car up by hand,listen for any odd noises and check for binding and perhaps give the brgs a drop of oil but I would certainly have the brgs out for a clean say after every 2nd or third meeting,especially this time of year with the pollen/dust on the track. |
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I have a stack also mate. Use so much motor spray cleaning them.
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...Hmmm thats not good chap neither are you a newby or a fool 
