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Post by mattsedgley on Feb 22, 2009 23:32:48 GMT
Racing today was great - Myself, Reuben, and Adam particularly in the finals were very very close, all three of us with different setup on our cars... (identical, Purple ones) One of us, had 30wt in the front and 40wt in the rear... the rest of the cars had identical oil in all four shocks regardless wt... what would that do to the car and the way it handles?? where should you use it?? what's the advantages / disadvantages of such a set up?? Matt  |
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Post by yellowshark on Feb 23, 2009 8:56:27 GMT
Well broadly oil wght follows springing. And broadly one springs the front stiffer. I am talking Xray world here in particular. On the black one most common setups see oil weight even at the 4 wheels even though front springs are normally one step up. Assuming this purple one had stiffer front springing then the oil wght looks a bit strange to me - maybe masking rather than fixing another setup problem? Equally it may be very smart move based on more knowledge than I have |
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Post by otr on Feb 23, 2009 9:21:24 GMT
Actually Matt that is not strictly correct as I am running 40wt in the front and 35wt in the rear. Primarily because I run a heavier spring on the front so need to slow down the reaction of the shock. Running light oil and heavy springs makes them a bit bouncy sp you need to run a heavier oil to slow down the reaction. If you run heavy oil with light springs it can happen that the response is too slow as the spring pressure acnnot return the shock fast enough against the weight of the oil. Of course this also depends on the holes in your pistons and the sizes of those holes. I tend to run on the Cyclone the two hole pistons drilled to 2mm.
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Post by lesbaldry on Feb 23, 2009 9:43:42 GMT
Matt rule of thumb is normally slightly heavier oil to the front,but strangely the TC and 008 kit settings are 30wt all round..both cars work very well this set up! Altering front shock oil basically changes the steering feel into and out of corners,this can be a personal thing and is best played with track side on the day..the use of roll bars with various changes in shock oil Wt can make a big difference too. Altering rear shock oil not only effects rear end grip/traction but can dramatically effect steering too(example..heavier rear shock oil improves power on steering) Some have differing opinions what shock oil changes does for them,It does depend a lot on the rest of the set up too ...Its a big can of worms as Piston hole/size,roll bars and rebound come into play in a big way. To be honest Matt dont worry to much about the finites of shocking..stick to what you know and perhaps raise/lower the shock Wt by 10/15 "either end"on the day and note the feel to your personal set up...but an improvement might be only noticable with the AMB lap times???..a spare set of quick change shocks can pay dividends here!! I dont think any of us "clubies" fully understand shock'ing my self included!! personaly I tend to stick to a known winter/summer spring/oil combo that suits me and I rarely change my Wt's at our track  |
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Post by Reuben on Feb 23, 2009 12:46:37 GMT
that may explain to why I prefer using pinks and silvers with 30wt, as using golds on the front made the car feel less stable and not as smooth? (more bouncing on the front end). But then my shock angles were Very different to yours on sunday Matt, so thats probably effecting the effect of the shock oil wt.
I think summer I will stick to 40wt all round..... seems to be a good overall base. then use springs and angles to set how the shock feels?
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Post by mattsedgley on Feb 23, 2009 17:03:21 GMT
Agreed I have 30wt all round - as the kit describes.
The car in question was running off the top of my head 30wt in the front and 40wt in the rear.. for a time it had issues with keeping the back end in line... presumably the stiffer oil could well have caused some of those issues??
Matt
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Post by Simon Crabb on Feb 23, 2009 17:50:49 GMT
"The car in question."
Just tell us who's car you're bangin' on about man!
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Post by issac on Feb 23, 2009 18:13:27 GMT
the car in question was adam roe's
the oil used was becouse thats all adam had at the time. during setup it was done with the softer oil on the rear but adam changed this becouse of a rear end stepping out problem. with this now solved to a degree the car is back on pace.
to answer matts point of keeping the back in line please remember that adam has just gone from a slowish speed servo to one that is very quick and therefore has had to adjust his settings/ driving style to suit
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Post by gwesty on Feb 23, 2009 18:22:42 GMT
this is a very good tuning aid ! whilst deciding what oil to use you also need to think about the pistons , then there is "pack" ! oil can change the car in wierd ways especially if its over damped or under damped ! shocks work diferently at all tracks due to bump etc
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Post by mattsedgley on Feb 23, 2009 18:28:18 GMT
The servo in adams car is slower than mine, I've not turned it down on the transmitter and the back end doesn't step out on my car. I'm running a standard Bashley set up
I didn't mention it was Adams car incase he didn't one his secret setup releasing to everyone! - simons just too noesy...
So Adam put stiffer oil in the rear to stop the back from stepping out?? I thought that would have had the opposite effect! of to read XXX main again it would seem
Matt
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Post by saintroeer on Feb 23, 2009 21:35:20 GMT
the servo is a large step up from my previous one in terms of spec, this combined with what was practically a seized servo saver, my driving has changed over time whilst ive been complaining of a understear and overall turning circle. we used a different setup manual from xxxmain( which as you know predominately contradict each other) and when on the track, the car really was underivable. little changes have been made after each race to a stage where the car is back to form which include stiffer shocks through oil weight and springs at the back.
as you are now becoming a setup master matt, you will know that making a small change to one part of the car, it will have an effect to another, and therefore there are many different ways to get a good handling and fast car, and it will be different for each drivers style. the only judgment is on the track and as yesterday i believe our fastest lap times were 0.01 seconds apart either my cars not to far off or there is something wrong with yours as well. ;D
if i didnt have problems with the steering linkage we would have probably had a good 5 minute race as well.
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Post by mattsedgley on Feb 23, 2009 21:56:42 GMT
Sorry guys maybe it's me - I started this thread cause I was interested in a set up I hadn't seen before - I kept the persons name out of the thread cause I hadn't asked if he was bothered about it being discussed or not, many racers have a few secrets they keep close to them - I'm not a set up master, far from it. I'm not saying I'm faster than anyone because clearly I'm not - sometimes I actually regret asking questions  |
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Post by Reuben on Feb 23, 2009 22:14:02 GMT
setup is all good fun... especially when you fluke it and seem to get it right, but then EXTREMELY frustrating to know what to change when the track does to keep up the speed. There seems to be a "Base" setup that works for a track (aka ride height, droop, camber etc) but then from there its pretty much a blank canvas to adjust that setup to your own personal driving style... I bet even if you wrote down exactly everyones setup here you would seem more similarity between the cars than you would differences (not including the fact that they all have 4 wheels ) - but its those little tweaks that make the car different to drive.  It wouldn't be fun if it was too easy |
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Post by lesbaldry on Feb 24, 2009 9:38:58 GMT
Sorry guys maybe it's me - I started this thread cause I was interested in a set up I hadn't seen before - I kept the persons name out of the thread cause I hadn't asked if he was bothered about it being discussed or not, many racers have a few secrets they keep close to them - I'm not a set up master, far from it. I'm not saying I'm faster than anyone because clearly I'm not - sometimes I actually regret asking questions You ask away Matt...we all learn off each other Reubs...yep we all "fluke" a set up now and then but are reluctant to stray from it next time out..dont be!!the only way to learn is with change, do very small changes one thing at a time is the golden rule. Oddly you can set up a mates car identically to yours but it will feel/drive slightly different. Working on a new track set up can be very frustrating even for the seasoned racer..most of us stray too far from the basics and miss the problem totaly...reading contradicting set up manuals can confuse,there is no substitute for trial and error experience. Understanding fully why X does Y when Z is adjusted/moved can be irrelevant just be happy It works for you and the adjustment effect improves your times |
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Post by issac on Feb 24, 2009 16:30:25 GMT
well said
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