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Post by yellowshark on May 29, 2009 11:40:58 GMT
Hi note that details of this (ex KO GP) at WLRC over bank holiday weekend are on Racechat. Note that weight limit has been set at 1400gm; so we won't be bothering.  |
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 29, 2009 11:56:35 GMT
Why does a 1400g limit prevent you from competing Pete? I'm sure you could easily lose 100g?
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Post by yellowshark on May 29, 2009 16:37:34 GMT
Why does a 1400g limit prevent you from competing Pete? I'm sure you could easily lose 100g? I'll get my post from Racechat  |
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Post by yellowshark on May 29, 2009 16:46:35 GMT
Why does a 1400g limit prevent you from competing Pete? I'm sure you could easily lose 100g? I'll get my post from Racechat Hmn I guess I have a different take on this. My 009 with a5300 Lipo has 70-80 gms added Now, running brushed and 6 cell the car was balanced left to right at 1500. Adding a Lipo was easy. Just add weights to the Lipo side to bring the car back to the same weight, and it is balanced left to right. Now go brushless. The motor is heavier. So to stay at 1500gms remove some weight from the Lipo side and car is no longer balanced left to right – probably marginal, I decided to prefer to run at 1500 rather than a heavier weight. Now reduce the weight to 1400 (god help us with a suggestion of 1350) and two things happen Firstly I can’t get down to 1400. So that means the nirvana/hype of cheap budgets arising from Lipo/brushless goes out of the window as you start replacing electronics and engines and packs in an effort to get down to 1400. Secondly if the car was marginally imbalanced left to right it certainly won’t be marginal anymore!! |
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Post by mattsedgley on May 29, 2009 18:04:02 GMT
They're good points pete, I've not attempted to balance my car at 1400 that might be a project for a rainy day!!
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Post by Matt Haskell on May 29, 2009 22:24:09 GMT
just hang the lipo out of the chassis a little.
We already do with motors and some esc's.
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 29, 2009 23:12:27 GMT
You don't have to be exactly on 1400g, 1420/1430g sounds fine to me...
I think it's certainly a compromise that can be made to enable you to compete!
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Post by yellowshark on May 30, 2009 7:08:25 GMT
Its the principle of a sudden rush to reduce weight down to 1400 I don't get. Never weighed it but I assume that most bare running chassis have pretty much equal L/R weight distribution. If I look at the XRAY the only non-symmetrical element is the servo posts. I think, although I have not researched it, that most setups have the servo, ESC and engine on the left and the battery on the right.
That means that within a reasonably narrow range you need batteries to be manufactured to a certain weight, which is easy. Smaller cells with heavier casings, larger cells with lighter casings. Total weight needs to be under , but nowhere near as much as it currently is, the legal weight, so as to allow for variation and the placement of some additional weight for balancing purposes.
The guilty party are the battery manufacturers. And I don’t see why I should suffer a weight penalty when I have done what the head of the BRCA electric board recommends, buy the largest capacity Lipo you afford and worry about C ratings after that.
1450 or 1475 is probably fine but 1400 penalises anyone without a 3300 battery. Maybe you can argue that a larger capacity battery has greter performance which balances the weight disadvantage, I have no idea but I have never seen anyone with credibility put that point froward.
No doubt Les will let us know if it s actually down to XRAYs being 50gm+ heavier than other cars ;D
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on May 30, 2009 8:22:32 GMT
Lucky for me 17.5 still has 1500 min weight limit, i'm booked in cant wait. Just hope it doesn't rain like it did last, Practice day sunshine all day... qualifying, rain... standing water (more like lakes)... race day started wet than dried out as the day went on....
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Post by Simon Crabb on May 30, 2009 8:43:18 GMT
Back in the day 1500g used to be difficult to get down to, with nimhs and clunky brushed equipment. And the cars were heavier too. I rarely bothered weighing my old Schumacher Mission, I always knew it was way over!
Now we're having to add piles of weight to lipos, it makes lots of sense to me to drop the weight limit.
And maybe 1400g is actually quite a smart move. Use 3800s, even 5000s and be on the weight limit, but if you want to push the envelope and have the latest 5300s, then there's some struggling perhaps?
It becomes a tactical juggling act of capacity, C rating, weight, balance.
Quit yer moaning and get yer name down Pete! It's the same for everyone afterall!
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on May 30, 2009 9:10:32 GMT
Also this year they haven't set tyre choice, last year was sorex 32... but at a guess most people will run sorex 32. Might try 36's myself this year. Anyone know the best tyre's for grip and life........? (I found 32's dropped off after 2 run's)
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Post by yellowshark on May 30, 2009 21:04:23 GMT
It becomes a tactical juggling act of capacity, C rating, weight, quote] Juggling eh Simon. I guess that would be chuck away your £250+ investment in 5300 cells and spend £180 on 3300 cells you dont want. Ho ho. |
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Post by Martin Young on May 30, 2009 21:11:26 GMT
And maybe 1400g is actually quite a smart move. Use 3800s, even 5000s and be on the weight limit, but if you want to push the envelope and have the latest 5300s, then there's some struggling perhaps? To me Simon it's more about balance left to right, I would not be able to balance my car at 1400grams. In fact running a 5300 will help the balance. The brushless speedo and motor combo's are just to heavy vs the lipo cells. so you need to add lead regardless!! |
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Post by Reuben on May 30, 2009 21:34:32 GMT
My Cyclone balances left to right at 1410. I then have 20gram on each corner of chassis + 15 in the middle to bring it up to 1510.
Thats running Demon 4000 or 5000 (very similar in weight)
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Post by yellowshark on May 31, 2009 9:10:27 GMT
And maybe 1400g is actually quite a smart move. Use 3800s, even 5000s and be on the weight limit, but if you want to push the envelope and have the latest 5300s, then there's some struggling perhaps? To me Simon it's more about balance left to right, I would not be able to balance my car at 1400grams. In fact running a 5300 will help the balance. The brushless speedo and motor combo's are just to heavy vs the lipo cells. so you need to add lead regardless!! Precisely. If the battery manufacturers had used heavier casings in the first place these discussions would never have taken place. Their origin is not lighter cars but the irritation of having to add weights everywhere |
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Post by TryHard on May 31, 2009 17:08:53 GMT
Personally Pete, this sounds like a pretty poor excuse for not going to the event!
Balancing the car at 1400g, there really shouldn't be an issue, as Mr Haskell as already said, you can simply move the cells out more... and before you moan about the packs having locators, situate them the other side of the chassis. Simple really.
In all honesty, I have never paid a huge amount of attention to L/R balance. Get it close, yes, but if it's slightly off, that can be easily compensated for on the shock collars.
Oh, and it's motor...
For me,the biggest issue for the event is a lack of a control tyre, as if you want to do well, your gonna need to test quite a few different ones, as WLRC is a tyre eater. And that costs, big style!
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on Aug 1, 2009 8:40:34 GMT
Only 28 days left till WLRC Ansman GP. Anyone Thinking of giving it a go this year..... Go on, 3 Days of Racing... you know you want to... ;D
Entries...
8 in 17.5
25 in 13.5
33 in 10.5
10 in mod
10 in GT10
Im sure with 4 weeks left bookings will shoot up as no big names in mod yet...
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Samspeed1
Hitting the Tyre
Cougar KF Cat K1
Posts: 37
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Post by Samspeed1 on Aug 3, 2009 14:13:15 GMT
I agree with you Ed, does seem a very poor reason not to do the event.
I presume you have tested at 1400g Pete??? I can not see the limit staying at 1500g anyway......
I personally am looking forward to the event as it is the only two day meeting I can do all season.
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on Aug 3, 2009 17:52:37 GMT
I personally am looking forward to the event as it is the only two day meeting I can do all season. Take it you wont be going saturday, All day practice from 11am |
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