Questiopn on Duo vs Tekin vs Nosram

[yellowshark]

Hi

Anyone now the answer to the following


Comparing a Duo 13.5 to a Nosram Storm 13. 5 is one more torquier or higher revving than the other

Comparing a Duo 10.5 to a Tekin Redline 10.5, same question

Comparing a Due 10.5 to the new Nosram Pure 10.5; same question

Cheers Pete

[mattsedgley]

I expect Les would be the best one to answer those questions,

However for what it's worth the Nosram X12 Pure 13.5 has oodles of torque, and a lot of timing built into the case.

I find the X11 Storm motors to be quite revvy, more of a Honda Civic type R than scooby if you like!

[lesbaldry]

Pete to be absolutely honest chap now theres some questions thats near impossible to answer,I could take a guesstimate but I dont want to steer you in the wrong direction.

Motors and esc's are so different theses days and so is the way people are tuning them (playing with profiles, timing,FDR's and temps)no mater who you ask amongst the faster lads everyone will have different opinions.

Some same make motors seem to perform completely different when coupled to other various ESC's,so I think this year will be a battle of who has his ESC and profile matched to his driving style,motor and track,
Ive been practicing at Aldershot to get a head of the forcoming "tuning " battle and each time Ive come away totaly confused ;D.....but one thing did surprise me is that one of the faster chaps at the shot was using an "old school" ESC with a old purple band Nosram hmmmm

Im starting to hate theses "fly timing programable " ESC's,..Life was so so much simpler with fixed timing motor and the old ISTC,gear it ,temp it and race it. .....lol

[yellowshark]

LOL that sounds ominous Les, unlike you to sit on fence, barbed wire or not ;D I agree though. I have just invested in some telemetry so I can try and see what an earth is going on at the various settings and an extra laptop battery ;D

So much for keeping costs down

[yellowshark]

Thanks Matt. Is that 30 degrees in total to at the zero point?

OK guys, what is the point of having timing in the engine when you can control it better via the software?

[gwesty]

as your aware pete the motor timing is active all the time the motor is moving , the speedo can be set to engage at such point . also speedo timing will keep the heat of the motor down ! as matt says the x12 motors have loads of timing built in so be careful if running with say a stock spec as it will get very hot very quickly !!!

[yellowshark]

Thanks Glen - and the tip on the X12!.What I was trying to get at was are there circumstances when you would dial in more timing at the motor rather than doing it from the ESC. It is not immediatley obvious to me why you would do so but I get the impression people do with the Gen 3 ESCs

[lesbaldry]

Feb 15, 2010 20:33:49 GMT yellowshark said:

LOL that sounds ominous Les, unlike you to sit on fence, barbed wire or not ;D I agree though. I have just invested in some telemetry so I can try and see what an earth is going on at the various settings and an extra laptop battery ;D

So much for keeping costs down

Having listen closely to some of the racers who do change and adjust their profiles its apparent that sometimes the"same"profile that is swapped between racers does not suit the other racer ie the feel of the drive is not right for them plus they may also have an overheating issues compared to the other driver even though their FDR's and motors are identical.

You asked about the Duo? ( trinity EA's???)...Ive been playing with theses motors and to be honest they aint bad at all,out of the box they come with max safe timing so there for they rev like hell,have plenty of top end but the punch is lacking slightly say compared to a GM , but this is easily cured,the EA has a neat little marked timing adjustable end bell so the timing can be knocked back simply (track side if you want) and then gear it to suit temp and punch!

[Reuben]

obviously be very careful with motor timing, the faster the motor the more sensitive it is to motor timing. Eg my 17.5 likes almost full timing (30-40) whereas if i go beyond 25 degrees with my 13.5 on the endbell (eg anywhere between about 30-40 degrees) there isnt much more of a performance gain but the temps start to rise very very quickly - even with trying to compensate with gearing.

When i tried my 10.5 (with stock spec) at bashers i was down to 9 with full timing on the end bell and couldnt get the motor below 80 degrees, so even less timing is needed for this with the gen3 speedos (ide guess between 10-20 degrees) but that is pure guess without any testing of the 10.5.

So I think there is a point where you can get too much motor timing on the endbell and just start increasing temps rather than rpm.

however motor endbell timing i found increases how quickly the motor starts advancing with the on-the-fly timing (with stock spec anyway). eg if i run no timing then the motor starts to pickup towards the end of the straight, the more i increase the timing (to a certain point - motor specific) the quicker it starts "boosting", so i now have it starting to boost when it hits the straight part of our straight.

running a non-on the fly speedo (aka my sphere in my 12th) the motor for some reason runs better with no timing on it (more punch and more instant power control), so motor timing could even be speedo specific aswell, rather than just gearing, track and profile different.

[lesbaldry]

How odd must be the 12th lower voltage and gearing!!the rule of thumb should be.non fly timing esc's :advance the motors static timing...A Fly timing type esc (depending apon profile) reduce an allready advanced motors timing or leave it on zero or out of box setting

My GM 10.5 is very good on zero to 15deg timing with punch 7 with the stock spec.

The Trinity worked best with max timing with my old ISTC

Bottom line to remember is ..more timing ,static or fly =lots more heat with rpm and less punch.