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Post by Matt Haskell on Oct 13, 2008 8:00:01 GMT
What a great formula!
I had an absolutely fantastic time on sunday (not possible without the staples) and will stick with the 17.5 for the winter at least.
What i did find, was that the slightly slower speeds made for some closer and more controlled racing.
Less wheel banging and an almost conservative approach to overtaking.
Had a great battle with keith over a couple of laps which with a faster motor, i feel may not have happened - no disrespect keith.
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Post by Simon Crabb on Oct 13, 2008 10:02:58 GMT
17.5 is excellent, it's just how club racing should be!
We're got a lot of members who are relatively inexperienced, and those forgiving sorts of speeds are perfect for improving racecraft.
My Losi Xcelorin (what a hard spelling that is!) was great, geared at 3.56 it was coming off stone cold with a phat fan. A smaller spur is going in to try gearing it further.
Punch was set at it's highest setting (6 on my older Sphere), which seems to make a big difference, a low punch of 1 or 2 simply didn't work on that sort of gearing.
I'm also intrigued that the motor seems quicker now than when it was first put in, I've no idea if there's a brushless motor 'bed in' concept or not, perhaps the bearings loosen up a bit?
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Post by Reuben on Oct 13, 2008 13:01:23 GMT
speed passion 17.5
FDR 3.66
Punch 6
Seems the sweet spot. Was coming off on sunday (warm day) hottest part was 53
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 13, 2008 16:22:02 GMT
17.5 honest opinion - Brilliant - certainly a match for the 27t as myself and Darren proved during yesturday, I can honestly say yesturdays 17.5 race goes in my top 5 races so far!
Absolutley brilliant!
I'm running a Losi Excelorin at 3.8FDR punch on Max comming off around 50 at the hottest part of the day (no cooling)
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Post by keitheroonie on Oct 13, 2008 16:39:25 GMT
What a great formula! Less wheel banging and an almost conservative approach to overtaking. Had a great battle with keith over a couple of laps which with a faster motor, i feel probably may not have happened - no disrespect keith. Spot on Matt, with a 13.5 I wouldn't have had the confidence to sit on your ass as long as I did and do battle. Great class to race in, gets my vote |
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Post by number1dan on Oct 13, 2008 18:13:26 GMT
im thinking of getting a 17.5 to hav sum fun with u lot  is there a new 1 in the pipeline that would be worth getting? |
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Post by number1dan on Oct 13, 2008 19:45:17 GMT
the nosram storm 17.5 looks pretty gd, any1 tried it? i'd like to get a motor no1 has yet to test equality and stuff
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Post by Reuben on Oct 13, 2008 21:09:47 GMT
wouldnt the nosram be similar to your LRP les? same sort of difference between the sphere and nosram version??
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Post by number1dan on Oct 14, 2008 17:37:25 GMT
im not sure if im racing this weekend cos there is a party at todds on saturday nite and i dont wanna race with a hangover |
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Post by number1dan on Oct 14, 2008 19:50:13 GMT
lol cheers les
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 20, 2008 11:04:24 GMT
So first meeting with the 17.5. How do I feel it went? Well I had forgotten how much slower stock racing was compared to prostock, so I felt it was slow. But that's just my perception not a criticism.
Need to squeeze more speed out of the car first of all. For an 'equal' class at least 3 drivers geared about the same as me, were way faster down the straight. Coupled with better infield handling and speed pick up, I was a lap down on Gray and Les for most of the day. I guess it's the same when you start anything new, it's a learning curve.
So I'll carry on and continue to learn how to get the car faster with the 17.5. One good thing is that the slower speed means you can (and have to) hit every apex to get a quick lap in.
As has been said before it's a good fun class and won't wear out your tyres, transmission or bank balance.
Now where can I find some more speed?
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Post by Simon Crabb on Oct 20, 2008 15:04:27 GMT
I gradually geared my Trinity towards max temp hoping performance would improve as the temp rose,wrong it started to drop of slightly the closer it got to safe max??? Perhaps the performance dropped off because of the heat? The 'fashion' to strap a massive cooling device to it is increasing. Reduce the heat, increase the performance? In my mind any heat removal is a good thing. |
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Post by Martin S on Oct 20, 2008 15:13:09 GMT
Don't be fooled by the temp reading of a motor with a big fan, it may appear cool on the outside but the core could be at melt- down.
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Post by Simon Crabb on Oct 20, 2008 15:28:03 GMT
Don't be fooled by the temp reading of a motor with a big fan, it may appear cool on the outside but the core could be at melt- down. I just don't believe that! Heat is removed from the motor, the core will get cooler too surely? The core is relatively close to the surface too, now they've been clever enough to put the winds around the outside. I keep having this conversation with people, it's seems it's dividing the sport! To cool, or not to cool? That is the question! |
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 20, 2008 16:22:39 GMT
I think the key things for any newbie like myself to take from this is: Take advice from older, wiser, more experienced members (no disrespect to anyone in this post is suggested or implied, I’m not trying to be an I.E.) run - test - run a motor to find its optimum FDR/punch/temp - without a cooler strapped on. Then and only then use a cooler. It's a certainty that a cooler will have some effect on the motor. How ever without getting all tech teacher about it, the heat generated by the current being pushed through the wires may generate so much heat that the "core" of the motor may reach critical temperatures before any exterior cooling used has taken effect. That's without making assumptions for the amount of contact area between the motor and the actual cooler, agreed the LRP/Nosram Ice coolers are a tight fit, however they do not contact around the whole motor, so it could be suggested that the cooling of them is negligible on the side where there is no contact with the cooler. Refering back to the original purpose of this thread, I've got a real thing for this motor, the advances in setup and learning i've made over the last few weeks couldn't have been made on a quicker motor, as this gives me the opportunity to think what i'm doing! Matt  |
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Post by Reuben on Oct 20, 2008 18:15:01 GMT
are temperatures going to become brushless's new motor killer?? much like brushed comms (skim them down to go REALLY fast, but shorten the life of the comm dramatically) aka over-temp the motor, go stupid quick - burn out the copper cores super quick? with this only time will tell. oh slightly off topic.....was googling brushless stuff and look at this: www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/speedpassion21-5r.jpgi wonder what the gearing would be? |
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Post by Reuben on Oct 20, 2008 19:45:11 GMT
with regards to heat syncs - I agree they are next to useless with a metal to metal contact............as there is VERY little contact between can and sync. Much like when you built a PC. eg, when building PC's you always apply a little bit of thermal paste between the two metal surfaces (which eventually cures and forms a bond between the objects) How come no-one has tried this with motors?? Eg standard thermal paste on my processor when i got it - the temp ran to about 40 deg c, 55 deg c on load...... replaced the thermal paste with some Artic Silver paste www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm <- for anyone interested..... It instantly dropped the idle temp to 23 deg C, 35-40 deg C under heavy load. Now with brushed there would be no point due to the constant dismantling and cleaning of the motor, but with brushless you could pop this on with heatsink and leave it (as it gets better with age) especially as the cans are now sealed, so no motor spray would leak onto it when you rarely clean the motors...... well Ive got some Artic silver still, so I might give it a good, see if it drops temps for motor any more (just out of interest really) |
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Post by Simon Crabb on Oct 20, 2008 20:57:32 GMT
This might work well with the LRP/Nosram fan that are an excellent fit - a motor label removing sort of fit! |
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 20, 2008 21:48:00 GMT
I had to buy 2 LRP fans to use on the 2 motors as the fit is extremely tight. Fact, runing my 10.5 with no fan at a considered 'safe' ratio back in July blew up a novak, now with fan installed and running higher ratios at 3 tracks motor comes off luke warm. Leaves the fan on through marshalling and the car on the fan stand afterwards. Sweet as a nut. Why don't manufacturers supply fans if they deemed it necessary? Well so they can sell you fans as an aftermarket tune up part to make some more cash. If they added £20 worth of fan to the cost of the motor it'd be well out of the BRCA limit. If fans don't work why do we all have them ready in the pitbox? Why did we used to use the peltier fans on the brushed motors? It's all about keeping the temp down, any cooling effect is desirable and if the outside of the can is cold then the inside must be cooler than with no fan at all. As for C of G the wrap around LRP/Nosram fan sits the fan over the back of the motor, nice and low and negates the necessity for extra lead on that side of the car. If the fans don't help much and you want to save weight take the fan off your Sphere speedo and marvel at the blue smoke that appears at 4 minutes in. |
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 21, 2008 8:32:15 GMT
So shall we leave it that you don't have to run fans, but some people do and they like them?
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 8:46:16 GMT
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Post by Simon Crabb on Oct 21, 2008 9:39:31 GMT
No one will ever convince me that a pathetic little fan that would'nt blow a match out bolted to a poorly fitted inefficient heat sinc thats running in very turbulent air is Worth the money.... No one will ever convince me that running a heatsink and fan is a bad idea! ;D Okay okay, we'll agree to disagree! That's what we all love about this sport, there's so many different ways to scoot a toy car around the track at remarkably similar speeds! ;D |
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 21, 2008 10:08:21 GMT
IT IS NOT A TOY!  |
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 10:28:50 GMT
Oh Simon. Fancy mentioning the TOY word. I think you could be in the poo there mate!
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 13:26:15 GMT
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 21, 2008 14:03:37 GMT
Wouldn't the uncooled hotspot become a super hot hot spot with no cooling?
Maybe it should be a club rule that new drivers are not allowed to use fans until they're feeling hot hot hot. You know on that one day a year it's sunny. It's called the summertime!
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 14:12:58 GMT
d**n. I must have been away on that day Mark. |
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 15:01:43 GMT
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 21, 2008 15:54:38 GMT
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Post by Matt Haskell on Oct 21, 2008 16:53:20 GMT
Would a fan work to cool this thread down? ;D ;D ;D
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is there a new 1 in the pipeline that would be worth getting?
