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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 28, 2008 14:25:50 GMT
I propose a special class for Ian then. The Stannah class. entry requirements are being called Ian lloyd, you can run any motors, any cells and bodyshell. Guaranteed first place trophy. Stock, Prostock and Stannah for 2009. That gets my vote
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 28, 2008 14:28:13 GMT
Mark you are so kind!
Better renew my sponsorship deal with Age Concern then.
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Post by Martin S on Oct 28, 2008 14:36:03 GMT
Cummon Old Timer, you are not even as old as me. How about an 'Older than Ian class' then I might for once win something.
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 28, 2008 14:51:53 GMT
Well being of such an advanced age I reckon I should get complimentary free club membership from now on.
You know how difficult it is to stretch the pension these days.....
An "Over 50's" class could be good fun. Trouble is at our club it could be over subscribed!
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Gary
Hitting the Tyre
BLUE
Posts: 40
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Post by Gary on Oct 28, 2008 15:06:40 GMT
Returning to the main point of this post i.e. the AGM and ideas how about the fun day as mentioned earlier in the year by Les. We could have team events with a car from each class or endurance or even trailer racing. Could be a good sunday giggle.
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Post by wessex88 on Oct 28, 2008 15:38:22 GMT
If we are to follow other clubs dorset are experimenting with brushless perhaps we had better go the whole way.At what cost.As for electrical theory I do know what I am talking about having studied electronics to hnd level.As for my cheap cells being uncompetitive I seem to be doing alright so far.My name for those interested is Paul Longhurst.
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Post by Martin S on Oct 28, 2008 15:50:45 GMT
Paul, I think you have proved the point that your cheap cells are certainly competitive and more than a match, punch for punch, than any lipo that would fit a mini. So why not allow Lipos for those that have the gear. As for brushless I see no reason not to allow them in the supermini class. But in standard mini entry class the 540 silver can should remain as long as it is available.
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Post by TryHard on Oct 28, 2008 16:21:16 GMT
Paul... I've got a brushless in my mini! It's a Speed Passion Exige, and whilst the BL2 motor currently in the car is certainly quicker (it'll happily keep up with a 27t powered tourer in a straight line), the BL1 motor is about spot on with a Tamiya black can. Having said that, keeping the silver can's is a good idea IMO, and leave us supermini boys to do the experimenting As for the electrical theory... the extra nominal 0.2v of a Lipo means diddly squat when you can peak a NiMh to over 9v, versus the 8.4v of a LiPo... No one's forcing you to go LiPo, just allowing thoose who want to use it the option, thats all. Like I said before, NiMh will probably still have the advantage, simply because the bigger capacity/higher C rating LiPo's (which do match, if not beat NiMh) won't fit in a mini.
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 28, 2008 17:10:21 GMT
Ah Paul! Hello, welcome to the forum. Please don't think that i'm knocking your knowledge and expereince. That was not the objective of my post, As ever its interesting to hear other peoples views, particularly when you know who they are Do you race at Hamworthy aswell?? what do they do about members running Lipo? is there a weight limit etc?
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Post by wessex88 on Oct 28, 2008 17:12:07 GMT
I assume the 9v mentioned for the NiMh cells would be measured with a digital meter off load.This would be a meaningless figure as loaded, as when in use, the voltage would be a lot less.My piont is if lipo's are much better than than affordable niMh's to stay competative would involve further outlay in what is supposed to be cheap class of racing.Cheque book racing does not appeal.
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 28, 2008 17:19:04 GMT
Paul, i'm sure if tomorrow night i ran a mini weighted the same as yours with me having a lipo you'd still beat me.. purely on your lines and good driving.. I think the suggestion is to make the LiPo option available, but to ensure that a weight limit is imposed on cars running LiPo to ensure that there is no unfair advantage. Just my thoughts as ever - the AGM and a vote will decide. On another point Bransgore suggested that they would follow suit with whatever we did to ensure continuity across local clubs. Matt
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Post by Martin S on Oct 28, 2008 17:23:42 GMT
I don' think anyone is saying Lipos are better, IMO they're not. But I like the idea of running with a Lipo that is able to be topped up many times in a day. Not something that is recommended with NiMh even if you find that you can do so. Also because of the many sizes of NiMh available to fit the mini, some will be a lot punchier than others. Using Lipos would level the playing field. As regards weight, it has already been suggested that a lighter mini would probably have a disadvantage through lack of traction with 2WD. Here is a brilliant Aussie website giving details of many things mini incl Lipos and lead weight tinyurl.com/6ebjay You'll need to scroll down the page a bit.
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Post by keitheroonie on Oct 28, 2008 17:24:01 GMT
The 9V mentioned would be off load yes but so would the 8.4V of the LiPo. A LiPo charger will switch off the charging current at 8.4V as charging above this is deemed to be hazardous. the nominal voltage (under load) will still be 7.4V though, the NiMh on the other hand has a nominal voltage of 7.2V unless overcharged to 9V when it will be considerably higher, closer to 8V, that's where the extra punch over the first few laps comes from.
I don't actually run a mini but feel it may be a little unfair to exclude LiPo's, the main advantage of a LiPo is off the track with low easy maintenance rather than on the track with extra speed, the end of the race will see Lipo powered minis running faster laps than NiMh powered cars but in the early part of the race it will be the opposite, "swings and roundabouts" as they say
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 28, 2008 18:07:44 GMT
Any chance we can get back to the AGM,its obvious that the complexity's of various types of cells and the importance of internal resistance,disscharge rateings needs to be debated and explained by very experienced racers on a different thread to thoses who are unawear
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Post by catapult on Oct 28, 2008 20:25:55 GMT
fun day sounds good carbon caravans anyone clock me in gary and i'll start on ours
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Post by keitheroonie on Oct 28, 2008 20:50:54 GMT
Get building Pete and Gary, I've got a rather nice scale model of race control that needs a good thrashing and bashing, I'd love a good funday race, maybe around Xmas
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 28, 2008 20:53:32 GMT
I propose at least one or two fun day type meets be penciled in next years diary..as for the format we can discuss this at a later date?..endurance, team or caravan race,not fussy it should be fun.
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 29, 2008 7:51:17 GMT
As there is a new 2wd mini on the horizon from HPI is the clubs 2wd mini class purely for the Tamiya ?
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 29, 2008 8:22:15 GMT
If it's two wheel drive then I dont see why it should not be allowed. However it is up to the people who devised the rules I suppose.
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Post by wessex88 on Oct 29, 2008 10:06:56 GMT
Club rules as they stand only permit Tamiya M01 M02 andM03.Not even the M04.
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Post by issac on Oct 29, 2008 14:13:04 GMT
maybe this needs looking into for the AGM
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 29, 2008 14:54:55 GMT
With respect to everyone and anyone who may be thinking about getting one I personally believe the rules are right in restricting the class to the M series Tamiya cars. This was meant to be a fun cheap class and that is more or less what it has turned out to be. It is also quite competitive enough as it is as far as I can tell.
Something that should be put on the agenda at the AGM maybe.
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 29, 2008 15:47:50 GMT
I agree to sticking with the M series of cars as they're all entry level. Same thing happens every year though, someone will want to run Mardave, someone will want to run a 4WD mini touring car and with the advent of the new HPI mini (and anything other manufacturers produce) someone will want to run that too.
As a club we've always tried to accomodate the minority racers and maybe it would be worth allowing the HPI if it's a) cheap and b) people actually buy them. It may even be better squeezed in the so called 'super mini' class.
Are the local hobby shops going to stock them even?
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 29, 2008 15:59:47 GMT
The HPI question was purely curiosity,I enjoyed the Tamiya mini racing"when I did it " but did'nt like the car (personal thing, please dont attack me)the only other minor bug was the hop up rule that could turn a fun class into a expensive class..just my feelings not a criticism at any one.LOL
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 29, 2008 16:55:26 GMT
Thing about 99% of the hop ups is, they make no difference to the car. Some guys turn up with aly arms, TRF dampers, ball diffs, adjustable arms the list goes on. Well actually it doesn't, there's not much else you can hop up on the little wagon.
Again it comes down to limiting your audience, IF you say "only this hop up or, that hop up" then the guy who has splashed out a hundred quid on the latest must have accessory won't be able to race.
It's about inclusion and personally I feel as long as it's an M01, 02 or 03 chassis with a silver can motor go for your life with blinging the car up. It doesn't need it, past shocks and ballraces, so it's money down the drain. But d**n it makes them look good!
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 29, 2008 23:32:28 GMT
Im not with you on this one Mark..remember the early days of the mini when the only mods were shocks and springs? a hand full of us had some dam close fun racing "we could barley drive for laughing ".Then the fit any Tamiya only hop up rule was allowed ,I stuck to just shocks and springs one or two others did not, on went the hop up's and so did the extra laps,seriously do you really think fitting ball diffs,u/j drive shafts,alloy suspension parts,rear toe in hubs and other hop up parts does not "tighten" the car and make it easier to drive therefor have a handling advantage?..my experience with set ups tells me otherwise!...this is the reason I dropped minis along with the 10 car destruction derby finals. Im torn between what indoor classes to run.TC's are fun but its a pain to keep changing to carpet set up, 4wd minis are fun but as you say they are a small TC and may defeat the object of a fun class(my Express is very fragile too) but I feel 2wd minis have now gone the expensive way(battery's not included ;D) ..if you want to win!...there is no way a "out of the box mini"even with oil shocks fitted can compete against yours..sorry for been blunt but it is my honest opinion. Besides you cant fit a cooler to them ;D....just joking Mark LOL
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 30, 2008 8:32:02 GMT
I would disagree with you on that Les.
You can fit a fan to a mini.
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 30, 2008 9:04:19 GMT
I would disagree with you on that Les. You can fit a fan to a mini. Other forms of propulsion is against the rules! "I think" .. ;D
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 30, 2008 9:09:13 GMT
If only people had stuck to simple M03 and not bought the Express mini eh Les. Would have been a lot simpler rather than trying to organise 2 mini classes.
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 30, 2008 9:47:58 GMT
If only people had stuck to simple M03 and not bought the Express mini eh Les. Would have been a lot simpler rather than trying to organize 2 mini classes. UH?....don't understand what thats got to do with mini hop ups?,I may have not gone down that route if the STD'ish mini was not hoped up too far,plus the Express was new and needed to be tested to see if it was a worth while indoor class "and thats what I did" no more no less ...ultimatly its the committees decision who races what LOL.....You know very well I worked very hard on the Express week after week to try and make a mixed class work,your comment carrys no weight at all..sorry As for th super mini today...the kits are out there to be used and people like to run new cars and the club should cater for this!
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