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Post by Robin Howett on Oct 21, 2008 7:48:21 GMT
Its getting close to club AGM time (date TBA)
Is there anything you'd like to propose for next year?
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 21, 2008 10:14:17 GMT
Lipos in minis.
Combining classes e.g. where should the 13.5 group go? With the 17s or the 10s?
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Post by number1dan on Oct 21, 2008 15:07:50 GMT
the types of championships that we will run next yr like teams of 2 or 4 or chassis type etc maybe
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Post by issac on Oct 21, 2008 18:12:31 GMT
lipo in mini's
classes 17.5/27t stock
10.5/13.5/19t prostock
some form of team championship
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 21, 2008 20:43:56 GMT
Some recognition, trophy or whatever, for those few that continually put in the effort for making it such a great facility for the majority
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Post by Martin S on Oct 26, 2008 21:56:37 GMT
Mount some flood lights on the rostrum for racing on blood donor nights or other night meetings.
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 27, 2008 1:30:46 GMT
Mount some flood lights on the rostrum for racing on blood donor nights or other night meetings. That would be nice  ...does windscreen de-icer affect Lexan ;D 0.5 second a lap advantage handicap for those over 50?  For finals outdoors...no hot /warm up laps after the one min warning,all cars that not on warm up laps to stay in track pit lane behind white line?( gives a chance for a triming run after set up change or repair with less risk of a nasty on the grid) |
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Post by ukcmf on Oct 27, 2008 12:21:56 GMT
Bring back the newsletter
Col
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Gary
Hitting the Tyre
BLUE
Posts: 40
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Post by Gary on Oct 27, 2008 13:01:48 GMT
Fllodlights sound like a great idea not sure about lipo's in mini's though
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 27, 2008 13:11:58 GMT
Not sure the landlord will appreciate floodlights and I don't fancy rooting around in the dark looking for the pinion gear I just dropped.
Return of the newsletter would be great but bagsy not writing it again!
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 27, 2008 13:16:59 GMT
No I dont think landlord would appreciate night racing! Or at least not sure his wife would!
I have raced at Yeovil under floodlights and it is not good. You need an awful lot of lights to make it good enough for racing.
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Post by catapult on Oct 27, 2008 20:34:03 GMT
introduction of an entry level stock class. as im sure minis are supposed to be, minis are now expensive enough to upgrade so not keen on lipos use them for F1 minis try to keep tamiya minis as STANDARD as possible. its not cheque book racing
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 27, 2008 21:09:05 GMT
For finals outdoors...no hot /warm up laps after the one min warning,all cars that not on warm up laps to stay in track pit lane behind white line?( gives a chance for a triming run after set up change or repair with less risk of a nasty on the grid) Like that one Les, sensible and workable. |
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 27, 2008 21:30:47 GMT
introduction of an entry level stock class. as im sure minis are supposed to be, minis are now expensive enough to upgrade so not keen on lipos use them for F1 minis try to keep tamiya minis as STANDARD as possible. its not cheque book racing weight advantage would be an issue here too!..even though a 2400 Lipo is cheaper than a matched pack it only weighs 160 gr |
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 27, 2008 21:33:55 GMT
For finals outdoors...no hot /warm up laps after the one min warning,all cars that not on warm up laps to stay in track pit lane behind white line?( gives a chance for a triming run after set up change or repair with less risk of a nasty on the grid) Like that one Les, sensible and workable. so's the over 50's 0.5 sec handicap,I expect Ian would agree with me too! after all we get cheaper car insurance which means we are safer drivers so why not faster laps?  ... ;D |
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 27, 2008 23:17:03 GMT
I've been talking to the committee up at Bransgore model car club, their bread and butter is mini racing, and they are keen to allow Lipos in the mini class particularly with them being as cheap as stick packs now.. i sugested to them that a standar mini weighs roughly 1450g - and they are keen to use a weight limit for those who want to run lipo, I'm interested in testing, to ensure that the mini is still competitive with/without lipo, i assume no-ones done any testing as yet? - mini people let the committee know your thoughts!  |
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 28, 2008 8:37:11 GMT
I think the half second advantage for the over 50's will not be enough Les. I need at least 5 seconds!
OK for what its worth.
Mini I think should stay as is. Seems to work so why change it. No Lipo's. Stick packs are cheap enough and some people who have Lipos will find they will not fit the mini so may have buy new. Not a good idea for a cheap class.
Outdoors 27t brushed and 17.5 brushless as F1 and F2 in same class.
19t brushed, 13.5 and 10.5 brushless run as F1, F2, F3? in same class.
Les is right in suggesting no warm up laps after one minute warning. Good idea.
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Post by TryHard on Oct 28, 2008 9:30:56 GMT
Come on matt, you know my Mini is LiPo powered... and has been for a long time now. I've got an Orion 3200 in it (it's the only one that fits), and it's weighted up to be very close (if not heavier) to a IB4200 stick pack. I've actually stuck the weight to the LiPo as well, so it's all in the same place. Is there any difference? Not any that would really matter in a mini. RC-Mini.net have done some comparison work with LiPo's in mini's, and find next to no difference. In fact, a mini with an unweighted LiPo is actually quite poo... as there isn't enough weight to generate traction! Personally, I feel that LiPo should be allowed for mini's, simply as it is the way forward... I for one won't be buying anymore stick packs (or nimh/nicad cells for that matter) simply to go mini racing. Any new drivers to mini's will most likely have to buy stick packs regardless, so why not let them buy a lipo that will fit anyway? I actually can't remember the last time I removed the battery from the car... So batteries that will fit? from the top of my head... Orion 3200 and 3400 Demon 3600 Yeah Racing 3200 (I know of a shop you can get two of these for $70+P&P thats cheaper than sticks!) |
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 28, 2008 9:39:01 GMT
Well I suppose I have no say really as I don't run a mini anymore.
My only thought was cost based on not running Lipos but it does appear that a Lipo shaped for a mini can be had at a very low price these days so sort of knocks that argument out.
Also most people will already have Lipo chargers so no need to change there either.
Is there any performance advantage? I would think not.
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 28, 2008 9:48:08 GMT
In my mini I have 4 year old nimh cells that need replacing and I don't want to have to buy Nimhs again. After all, everyone wants lipo for TC why not for minis, the Orion 2400 come in at around £30 and even the expensive £40 Demons are shaped and have 4000 capacity. Surely the arguments for beginners and lipo, everyone used in TC are still valid for minis? Simons ingenious tray means he can switch from TC to mini with a lipo pack easily. That halves the number of cells you need if you do both classes. Granted last year we turned down the lipo option because of safety worries and availability issues. I feel they've been resolved with several manufacturers making the shaped lipo packs that will sit very well in the minis, and people are generally quite sensible with lipos. You could always run the mini in a lipo sack to be safe  Yes, it is supposed to be a fun beginners class and I feel the M03 class is. Not sure about the 4wd super wagons, they're just a small TC that defeats the object of a fun mini class. But adding lipo to the M03 class means that Johnny Newboy can pick up a set of lipos which will give equal performance to all other lipo packs, whereas you could end up with a real dog stick pack for the same money. Any idea on a date for the fight? I mean AGM. |
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Post by TryHard on Oct 28, 2008 9:48:13 GMT
If anything (and this is personal opinion), I would say the NiMh would still have an advantage, especially if someone turned up and used a IB/EP 4200 or 4600 stick pack. This is simply because I know from personal experience that the Orion 3200 LiPo lacks a bit of punch against the NiMh cells (it's only a 20C battery on a 3200 capacity... so 64A). The small bit of extra voltage counts for not a lot. If you could fit a bigger capacity/higher C rating pack, then maybe it would be different.. but I guess we'd need to wait for the M05 for that ;D Ed |
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 28, 2008 9:51:14 GMT
Pete,
there are trophies for sportsmanship and the chairman's cup. Both of which get awarded to members who go over and beyond the call of duty as a member. I'm sure the committee will have people in mind to present them both to, possibly at the AGM?
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Post by yellowshark on Oct 28, 2008 12:37:07 GMT
I think the half second advantage for the over 50's will not be enough Les. I need at least 5 seconds! OK for what its worth. Mini I think should stay as is. Seems to work so why change it. No Lipo's. Stick packs are cheap enough and some people who have Lipos will find they will not fit the mini so may have buy new. Not a good idea for a cheap class. Outdoors 27t brushed and 17.5 brushless as F1 and F2 in same class. 19t brushed, 13.5 and 10.5 brushless run as F1, F2, F3? in same class. Les is right in suggesting no warm up laps after one minute warning. Good idea. I do not know the actual answer to this but do we need to split Stock by engine type? I got the impression that earlier in the summer the 27Ts were ahead but of late (with getter gearing?) that position had changed and the 17.5s had caught up? |
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 28, 2008 12:42:36 GMT
i don't think we do Pete, however it obviously could be put to the vote...
Matt
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 28, 2008 13:14:07 GMT
[/quote
I do not know the actual answer to this but do we need to split Stock by engine type? I got the impression that earlier in the summer the 27Ts were ahead but of late (with getter gearing?) that position had changed and the 17.5s had caught up?[/quote]
Personaly I dont care..but if there are any 27t brushed runners next year they will probably be new drivers and all due respect to them motor type/power wont make much difference to their perfomance...let them run together?..just a thought?
I feel the same way with 13.5/10.5/19t(I think we have less 13.5 runners than 10.5's)..its your choice..keep things simple,two classes???
I think the majority of the faster 13.5/10.5 drivers are happy to run with each other "for fun's sake"..the only problem I can see is if a non member wants to race our mixed pro stock class with a 13.5.
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Post by wessex88 on Oct 28, 2008 13:15:35 GMT
Leave the mini's alone.Not everybody runs lipo's,to change would require new chargers as well as new cells.lipo's may only cost £30 - 40 for which it is possible to buy 2 or more stick packs.Since when did the Bransgore committee start running the club.To answer another piont basic electrical theory suggests voltage does matter so the lipo's should have an advantage.I see this as just another unjustified cost.
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Post by Mark Townsend on Oct 28, 2008 13:29:40 GMT
The point is you don't have to run lipos but it would be nice as an option. Fair enough if you don't run a TC with lipos but lots of our members do and for a newbie buying lipos and a new charger makes better financial sense than a stick pack and charger.
What will you do when Nimhs and Nicads are no longer available? And if you're buying 2 stick packs for £30 they'll definitely be worse than a lipo for voltage, runtime and lifespan so I think it's a little false economy. Unjustified cost is splashing out on blue bling to make your car look better not necessarily go faster. Unfortunately technology moves on apace regardless and lipos are just the latest things. No-one is suggesting a full BL setup (yet!) just an option to replace out of date cells.
As for the Bransgore Club I pretty much guarantee they don't run our club, but to attract members to both clubs it seems pretty sensible to have a similar rule set.
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Post by mattsedgley on Oct 28, 2008 13:31:49 GMT
Leave the mini's alone.Not everybody runs lipo's,to change would require new chargers as well as new cells.lipo's may only cost £30 - 40 for which it is possible to buy 2 or more stick packs.Since when did the Bransgore committee start running the club.To answer another piont basic electrical theory suggests voltage does matter so the lipo's should have an advantage.I see this as just another unjustified cost. Sorry Wessex88, not to sure who you are, It'd be nice if you posted a name to go along with your post, Bransgore Club don't run SHMCC - the Committee at SHMCC run the club for members, the emphasis being on members driving all of the decisions. Please don't talk about "Basic Electrical Theory" Many of our members have backgrounds in disciplines such as Electronics, Electrical Engineering, Design, Mechanical engineering and as such are well versed in the ins and outs of an NiMh and LiPo. Any Agreement between local clubs about running LiPo would surely help bolster numbers within the sport, Bransgore have been known to have upwards of 25 minis week in week out. Ensuring that Bransgore, SHMCC, and Hamworthy all run similar rules allows racers to race in more than one place within the week. I'd welcome a further full length discussion about LiPo in Mini at the AGM, however I believe the original purpose of this post was to get people thinking not starting any arguments. Regards Matt SHMCC Committee |
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Post by lesbaldry on Oct 28, 2008 13:53:29 GMT
Hi wessex88 the guys are right,even though a nihm's pack is stated at 7.2v and a Lipo at 8.4v the lipo can only be charged to this max voltage but a matched nihms pack can be "hot packed " and go to the line with above 9v and way more punch and blow your doors off compared to the Lipo, fact!!..Lipos do level the playing field regarding cells. the only advantage I thought of was their weight advantage but better mini drivers than me say that the extra weight due to front wheel drive is an advantage and I believe them..draw your own conclusions from the above facts and some very experianced quick mini drivers views..cheers Les |
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Post by oldtimeracer on Oct 28, 2008 14:14:02 GMT
I am the first to admit that maybe my statement earlier was a little hasty. The fitting of Lipos to the mini class would seem to be OK. The comments so far I can see are probably right. There would be no performance advantage and those people who already run Lipos would benefit as they don't have to rush out and buy new Nimh packs for the next season.
Those who are only racing minis and only have Nimhs or Nicads may well have an advantage in performance terms so how can there be any arguments?
It would seem on reflection that allowing Lipos as well as Nimhs/Ni cads in the mini class is actually a sensible idea.
Also I can see the sense if just having two classes for TC outdoors. As long as everyone else is happy with the mix of motors I have no problem at all. I still will not win anything!
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...does windscreen de-icer affect Lexan ;D
