|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 29, 2009 17:07:05 GMT
This seems to be getting quite popular! now there seems to be about 6 F1 kits in the club.. So... here's a set of draft rules, comments and dicussions about F1 rules only in this thread please!! - Any F1 Chassis
- Any F1 Shell
- Ansmann Clash 28t Sealed Can motor
- Any Brushed Speed Controller below £40 new - Any second hand speedcontrol within reason - No MXpro super dooper jobbies
- Lipo is allowed but must be hard cased, and weighted to be the same as a 3800 stick pack (final weight to be agreed)
- Lipo Cutoff MUST be used in conjunction with a lipo.
- Any Rubber tyre
- No After market performance enhancing hopup's
Discuss!
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 29, 2009 17:09:00 GMT
I should point out, I've tried to restrict the speed of the cars, and the cost to ensure that it's accessible to the most amount of people, particularly as the realism could encourage many more members to join!
Matt
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 30, 2009 0:12:49 GMT
Ameneded to add voltage rule 7.2V stick pack or 2s 8.4V LiPo
|
|
|
Post by ian on Dec 30, 2009 0:33:08 GMT
That sounds fine so far Matt except perhaps the no hop ups bit, this is fine if everyone is running HPI, very evenly matched then but as you put the any chassis rule then clearly someone with a 3Racing F1-09 is going to be at an advantage to someone who bought the HPI ? I guess it could end up if there are enough entrants you could have a no hop ups and a with hops ups section ? Aside that leave that part out, then it's down to tyres and driver ability...
Also, if this is indoor and out, will the rules remain the same, will the rubber tyres grip on the carpet ? Will the same cells last enough for the outdoor track ?
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 30, 2009 8:05:19 GMT
Also, if this is indoor and out, will the rules remain the same, will the rubber tyres grip on the carpet ? Will the same cells last enough for the outdoor track ? For sure if the compound is right and with a good additive there is no reason why rubber should not work "to a degree" but for these cars there will be no substitute for foam on carpet...Talking to Martin Young last night(experianced F1 driver) the F1,rubber,carpet combo used to be a bit of a pig to drive...Perhaps there may be some better rubber compounds now???..hopefully!! As for poor duration Ian with todays cells and the efficiency of 2wd thankfully its a thing of the past I think Matts suggestion of Power (28t) is a wise choice ,Plenty of top end with forgiving punch and cheap too....I would'nt fancy learning to drive one with any more power than that "scary stuff"lol....Plus if the F1 is powered to be "too fast" with rubber there may well be a small problem with the wide rear tyres balloning at high speed causing snaking due to smaller foot print.
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 30, 2009 10:09:36 GMT
That I guess it could end up if there are enough entrants you could have a no hop ups and a with hops ups section ? Aside that leave that part out, then it's down to tyres and driver ability... Also, if this is indoor and out, will the rules remain the same, will the rubber tyres grip on the carpet ? Will the same cells last enough for the outdoor track ? Predominantly I feel the class will be made up of HPI F10 cars, they're already more popular than either the Tamiya or three racing. Naturally these rules have been tailored towards that. We race touring cars on rubber tyres very successfully, I for see few problems getting them to work. The cells will easily last the 300 seconds required for a quali or final. Please also remember, this is all in theory - we've not even put one down on the track yet, the summer is a long time away, this is a decent set of rules to work from for a couple of months to see how they go.. The 3rd will be a our first day with these on the carpet!
|
|
|
Post by ian on Dec 30, 2009 12:36:02 GMT
Have just received an email from Dez Chand of RRCi fame, he said he's done 5 meetings with a 3Racing car on foams, 3 indoor, 2 outdoor and the same tyres are still fine ! I'll try and get along to the 3rd meeting and see how it's going
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Dec 30, 2009 13:48:12 GMT
This seems to be getting quite popular! now there seems to be about 6 F1 kits in the club.. So... here's a set of draft rules, comments and dicussions about F1 rules only in this thread please!! - Any F1 Chassis
- Any F1 Shell
- Ansmann Clash 28t Sealed Can motor
- Any Brushed Speed Controller below £40 new - Any second hand speedcontrol within reason - No MXpro super dooper jobbies
- Lipo is allowed but must be hard cased, and weighted to be the same as a 3800 stick pack (final weight to be agreed)
- Lipo Cutoff MUST be used in conjunction with a lipo.
- Any Rubber tyre
- No After market performance enhancing hopup's
Discuss! Just a couple of comments. Rubber tyres only? I know you say that HPI's will make up the lions share but if anyone did buy a Tamiya or 3racing chassis the tyres supplied with the kit couldn't be used. Sounds mad to me! No hop ups! I feel hop ups should be allowed.
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 30, 2009 14:00:06 GMT
interesting points Martin..
As i said it's a draft.. feel free to alter it as you see fit..
I wonder how much of an advantage foam is over rubber on our circuit - anyone ever compared?
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Dec 30, 2009 15:12:36 GMT
interesting points Martin.. As i said it's a draft.. feel free to alter it as you see fit.. I wonder how much of an advantage foam is over rubber on our circuit - anyone ever compared? Matt I think you right drafting some rules at this early stage, we can then try and modify as needed then. I'm hoping to run mine with Mr Challis on the 3rd, so should know more then.
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 30, 2009 17:23:19 GMT
Martin, I know you're a busy bloke... but...
Do you fancy being the "go to" guy for this through it's "draft stages"? I know you've run F1 before, and you're a very experienced driver both indoors and outdoors...
Let me know,
Matt
|
|
|
Post by martinchallis on Dec 30, 2009 18:25:20 GMT
NO Hopups
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 30, 2009 19:15:16 GMT
Bah humbug, but aren't new classes (along with rules) meant to be proposed at the club AGM and discussed and voted on by the club membership, which this forum only partially represents?
|
|
|
Post by Reuben on Dec 30, 2009 19:50:22 GMT
bah humbug indeed! Nothing has been set in stone and racers are toying with the idea of F1 at the club. This thread has developed alot over the last week. So as far as I can see nothing has been stated yet that would effect members or current championships that exist outside of the forum. obviously if anything will be set in stone, then the membership will be asked for their views at meetings before anything is disclosed.... We arent a bunch of rule changing hap-hazard monkeys. so let the Speculation continue! I VOTE HOPUPS!!
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Dec 30, 2009 20:41:54 GMT
Our hobby often changes too fast for us to wait for an AGM to come around before making decisions, at which point the committee who have been voted by members voting at the AGM will take into consideration all view points and "straw poll" questioning before making a decision in the best interest of the club, after all the committee give vast amounts of their free time to work for "you" the members. I think the key here is the wording of my first post this is a DRAFT proposal for what the class could run too, as ever the membership both on and off the forum would be consulted before any final decisions are made, please note there has not been an indoor or outdoor club meeting for us as members to discuss this with a wider audience yet. Also there are members who are not regularly on the forum and those that don't show up to race meetings, and those who choose not to attend the AGM. We have to make every effort to highlight the possibility of the new class to as much of the membership as possible within reason, surely with something as exciting as a new class that shouldn't fall to the committee, rather to the club as a whole to gain support from all interested parties. Please also bear in mind, the first post and subsequent posts of these DRAFT rules are written by myself as a racer, not as a member the committee... Also may I highlight the suggested time frame? We're talking about testing over the next few months. Not weeks. Not hours. I've already asked Martin if he would like too.. But if any member of the club, who is reasonably experienced with the hobby and 1:10 F1 would like to run this "project" and steer it, it'd be great, I've enough to do outside of Holiday time!
|
|
|
Post by ian on Dec 30, 2009 20:49:57 GMT
I wonder how much of an advantage foam is over rubber on our circuit - anyone ever compared? I'd imagine it would be some advantage, possibly more on carpet ? Outside on a good day I'd say it's more likely to be more even.
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 30, 2009 20:52:45 GMT
Thanks for the clarification Reuben. For a moment there I thought I was going to have to go out and buy some bananas ;D I vote for allowing Tcs as long as they have a Corvette bodyshell
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 31, 2009 8:02:36 GMT
Any new class needs firstly to be discussed amongst the members who "importantly" show an interest in this,secondly to be tested on out tracks to find out what is practical....In the past we have done this with the 17.5 and just recently the new weight limit (1350).....so should testing be a prob with F1??..NO! As for hop ups...let the class be tested first as STD then let those who want to run them decide??....keep it simple ,keep it cheap.....just my thoughts Matt has probably no interest what so ever in running an F1 but he has started to get things moving on this thread of his own back due to interest shown by other members,new and old....Hats of to him!!
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Dec 31, 2009 10:12:06 GMT
Matt has probably no interest what so ever in running an F1 but he has started to get things moving on this thread of his own back due to interest shown by other members,new and old....Hats of to him!! Couldn't agree more! Thanks Matt.
|
|
|
Post by lesbaldry on Dec 31, 2009 10:41:25 GMT
Food for thought chaps......The problem with a multi make formula is that hop up's will vary per make unless its kept to something simple like an oil filled shock as apposed to a friction type...even then one make might prove to be easier to drive/faster. than another.....for any cheap formula to work well "same make" is normaly the best
|
|
|
Post by yellowshark on Dec 31, 2009 12:33:10 GMT
Matt has probably no interest what so ever in running an F1 but he has started to get things moving on this thread of his own back due to interest shown by other members,new and old....Hats of to him!! Spot on, any effort to increase membership is to be applauded. Well done to the Teacher
|
|
|
Post by ian on Dec 31, 2009 17:59:39 GMT
I'm new round these parts, well not exactly new but there wasn't a forum 10 years ago so I'll stick with saying I'm new ;D I know none of you but am impressed with the speed this thread has picked up and to echo earlier comment appreciate Matt's help getting everyone talking about it. I'm looking to buy soon so if it's going to be a one make series that's fine, but can someone tell me please, don't want to turn up with my spanking new car only to find I bought the wrong one lol. I'll do my best to get over sunday and stand around looking stupid for a while until someone talks to me
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Jan 1, 2010 15:30:44 GMT
Hi All
I understand the comments about a one make series but I feel the different chassis can still race closely together with a restriction on the motors etc. Look at all the different makes of touring cars used, all of them in the right hands are fast! I hope this F1 class doesn't become a one make series, I'm running an old Tamiya F103.
Just for interest myself and Martin Challis have been down to the track today for a bit of a play with the F1's
My F103 vs Martin's HPI Formula10.
Firstly we both ran silver kit 540 and these cars were still fast, what ever motor is chosen for this class in my opinion it doesn't want to be too much faster than a kit motor. The Ansmann sealed can motors or even the kit silver can would be great.
The HPI handled better with soft rubber tyres on it than my Tamiya F103 on foams. Mine was slightly faster in a straight line but i feel this was related to the cars weight my Tamiya for sure is lighter than the HPI.
Both cars suffered from the bumps especially coming onto the straight the rear of the car was physically lifting, interestingly though both cars weren't grounding so i think this could be solved by set up. The Tamiya was definitely too light which exaggerated the issue and in fact i am going to add some weight to the car before trying again.
One thing was for sure i had great fun! ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by martinchallis on Jan 1, 2010 15:48:31 GMT
i have never gone up and down the rostrum so many times in one day. great fun,
|
|
Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
|
Post by Darren on Jan 1, 2010 15:56:46 GMT
Firstly we both ran silver kit 540 and these cars were still fast, what ever motor is chosen for this class in my opinion it doesn't want to be too much faster than a kit motor. The Ansmann sealed can motors or even the kit silver can would be great. Did you run lipo's or stick pack...? And as F1's are pan cars like GT10 pan car and people seem to run 17.5/lipo combo or 10.5/4 cells combo and both are just as quick as each other (so people say). Would you say or think that a 17.5 BL and lipo would be any quicker than a silver can and lipo...? Down at DMCRC silver cans run along side 17.5 BL in mini's (apart from running a advance on the fly esc theres not much in it.... so people say) Would the Cheapest option be brushless motor as one motor would last a year(some people would use the same motor in stock) yet brush motor die off... I know silver cans and Ansmann motor are cheap but how many would people use in a year of racing I'm looking to do GT10/F1 this year so im looking for somewhere to races, aldershot is the closest so far, so i keen to run these at bashley
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Jan 1, 2010 16:06:34 GMT
we're open to suggestions about what to run, some people have requested that we keep it cheap and cheerful,
Lets see how this sunday goes with you and your 17.5/lipo versus the other two - agreed our hall is v.small but it might give some information...
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Jan 1, 2010 16:11:56 GMT
Did you run lipo's or stick pack...? And as F1's are pan cars like GT10 pan car and people seem to run 17.5/lipo combo or 10.5/4 cells combo and both are just as quick as each other (so people say). Would you say or think that a 17.5 BL and lipo would be any quicker than a silver can and lipo...? Down at DMCRC silver cans run along side 17.5 BL in mini's (apart from running a advance on the fly esc theres not much in it.... so people say) Would the Cheapest option be brushless motor as one motor would last a year(some people would use the same motor in stock) yet brush motor die off... I know silver cans and Ansmann motor are cheap but how many would people use in a year of racing I'm looking to do GT10/F1 this year so I'm looking for somewhere to races, aldershot is the closest so far, so i keen to run these at bashley 17.5 brushless in an F1/ GT10 car will be so much faster than a silver can. The only reason it works in the mini is the restricted gearing, once you can gear the 17.5 brushless motor as it should be then there is no comparison. As proved all year in a TC with the correct gearing a 17.5 is as good as, if not better than a 27t stock motor. As for how long they last, I'm still using mini silver cans that are over 5 years old so i guess changing them is down to personal choice and how competitive you are. With sticking to brushed motors the true cost i.e. speedo and motor i believe will be lower. Most if not all of us have brushed speedo's in the pit boxes that aren't used so no need to buy a £200+ brushless speedo to be competitive. I think also the torque of a 17.5 in a direct drive car will be very difficult to drive and probably put people off. IMO Lets try it with a silver can first and see how fun the racing is. Just my thoughts. Looking forward to Sunday now for sure four F1 ;D ;D What chassis are you running Darren? Reading your other post (On the other thread) Darren it will be interesting to see how the different motor combos go, maybe we can get together for a outside test at some point in the future?
|
|
Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
|
Post by Darren on Jan 2, 2010 15:02:54 GMT
Im running a tamiya F102 standard using foam tyres. Need to find some rubber tyres for outside racing, let me know when your going for a testing session and i'll come along
|
|
|
Post by mattsedgley on Jan 2, 2010 17:04:59 GMT
FYI I drove a F109 at Aldershot today - saturn20t sealed can motor, plus demon 5000mah 20c Lipo.. and it was v.hard to control.. it would spin at even the slightest hint of some throttle being gently placed in it's direction! rather you guys than me!
|
|
|
Post by Martin Young on Jan 2, 2010 17:32:17 GMT
FYI I drove a F109 at Aldershot today - saturn20t sealed can motor, plus demon 5000mah 20c Lipo.. and it was v.hard to control.. it would spin at even the slightest hint of some throttle being gently placed in it's direction! rather you guys than me! That's some of the fun ;D ;D ;D No sense of adventure
|
|