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Post by ian on Jan 3, 2010 19:15:40 GMT
FYI I drove a F109 at Aldershot today - saturn20t sealed can motor, plus demon 5000mah 20c Lipo.. and it was v.hard to control.. it would spin at even the slightest hint of some throttle being gently placed in it's direction! A long time ago ( in a galaxy far far away... no no ) they gave a bunch of journalists a try in an F1 car, a real one, it was detuned as much as possible and none of them managed to drive it in a straight line, I guess it must be the same sort of thing, not what we're used to, uber amounts of power through a long chassis and the rear wheels only. I popped by about lunch time ish and caught all the races from lunchtime until the 12ths came on, nice to watch some racing rather than frantically be running around trying to charge cells and get everything sorted. I saw the F1's going around, good to see enough people to race with them, although the Tamiya on foams seemed to go best, I guess we need to see what sort of tyres are working or maybe run foams indoors and rubber out Was encouraging to see so many running though, I hope it's something the club seriously consider keeping as a class!
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 4, 2010 14:26:46 GMT
At first I had very little interest in running an F1 but after watching them yesterday my curiosity has grown,it also seems a very cheap alternative to my TC with just as much close racing fun...I do fancy running one indoors but with foams.
So far Foams have a distinct advantage(carpet) so whats the thoughts of the other F1 drivers,can foams be fitted to the HPI? if so would you run them?
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Post by Reality Racer on Jan 4, 2010 15:14:38 GMT
At this time no foam tyres are available for the HPI , only softer rubber ones which I intend to try Wednesday. Martin C got on ok with them by the last final Sunday.
But rubber tyres are or will shortly available for the Tamiya & Muchmore cars.
I would prefer foams for indoors, but if they are not available for the HPI very soon it looks like rubber is the only option.
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Post by Reuben on Jan 4, 2010 15:19:54 GMT
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 4, 2010 16:06:32 GMT
At this time no foam tyres are available for the HPI , only softer rubber ones which I intend to try Wednesday. Martin C got on ok with them by the last final Sunday. But rubber tyres are or will shortly available for the Tamiya & Muchmore cars. I would prefer foams for indoors, but if they are not available for the HPI very soon it looks like rubber is the only option. Hopefully they will work Terry....I remember Martin saying something about some adapters that may allow foams to be used?? it was New years eve and we were both a bit drunk,well I was .........Que Martin
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 4, 2010 16:25:10 GMT
But rubber tyres are or will shortly available for the Tamiya & Muchmore cars. I've been looking into this. What a can off worms!! At present the only rubber tyres I can find for the Tamiya F103 are manufactured by Cross (Also the same tyre if you can believe forums are badged by TRG). I also can't find anyone selling these in the UK and even in the far east they are like rocking horse poo! Pit Shimizu also do rubber F1 tyres but these I can't find for sale anywhere but are listed on there site . If the Super Production Cup takes off then Rubber tyres should become available in the UK for the 3racing, Tamiya's. As far as foam tyres are concerned Zen, TRG, Tamiya, 3 Racing too name a few are all available and some of these makes in the UK. Cost comparison between foams and rubbers tyres: the foams (unless you include Tamiya pre-mounts) are cheaper, but indoors they do chunk if you catch something wrong. When I raced the F103 in the Tamiya eurocup series were ran foams inside and out and they do work very well. I never used pre-mounts just used to buy new tyres and re-use the old rims. They were simply double sided taped onto the rim. Super Soft foam rears do wear very quickly, Darren yesterday was loosing nearly 1.5mm per run from his tyre diameter, mine however which i believe are Tamiya kits lost less than 0.75mm all day. I'm not sure for the older cars the rubber tyres will ever be easy to get!! I still think the class need to be open for people to run what they want as different makes are supplied with either rubbers or foams, but that said indoors i think the foams for sure are faster with a larger set up window. Unfortunately the set up for rubber tyres needs to be spot on (similar to a touring car ;D) and even then i don't know it will be quite as fast. Any idea on the HPI foam rim diameter is? Will Zen TRG Tamiya tyres fit? HPI also do a ball diff upgrade for foam tyres that looks to me to allow the Tamiya F102/3 foam tyres and rims too fit. Also with the HPI F10 being supplied with a gear diff is it suitable to run foams?? I've never run foams with a gear diff will that work?
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 4, 2010 16:31:48 GMT
Hopefully they will work Terry....I remember Martin saying something about some adapters that may allow foams to be used?? it was New years eve and we were both a bit drunk,well I was .........Que Martin The foam diff upgrade looks to adapt the mountings to the Tamiya sizes? I've only looked at the pictures online so could be wrong. If not then the HPI foam rim set must fit, if the rim dia is the same as the Tamiya's then the already available F1 tyres will fit (as long as the width is also OK). I told you this was a can of worms The Tamiya's use a much larger hex than the standard 12mm
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 4, 2010 16:35:35 GMT
The second picture down on that page I think is a conversion for the front hubs to take Tamiya mounted rims, if thats the case then the foam diff upgrade i believe will convert the rears???
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Post by oldtimeracer on Jan 4, 2010 17:01:11 GMT
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Post by jamietraylor on Jan 4, 2010 19:24:25 GMT
Terry should be ordering me a 3Racing F1 tomorrow!Cant wait!I want to run it indoors on foams with 17.5. but would run a spec brushed motor if need be!
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Post by martinchallis on Jan 4, 2010 19:56:32 GMT
the diff pictured is the same as mine, - looks like it still uses hex hubs but like the f103 the diff adjustment has been passed over to the rear wheel tightening.
i will be interested to see how the f10 goes on foam tyres, i will say it was alot of fun on rubber with a half decent setup.
im trying to find a setup for the spc cup, so im predomantly leaning towards rubber - also it would be nice to be able to use the same tyre indoors and out,
i dont think there would be any amout of setup change to get my f10 to the pace of the tamiyas on the foam tyres...
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Post by Reality Racer on Jan 4, 2010 20:48:20 GMT
MuchMore Racing will have rubber tyres in different compounds and rims for the 3Racing & Tamiya cars for the Super Production Cup in the next couple of weeks.
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 4, 2010 22:26:54 GMT
Terry should be ordering me a 3Racing F1 tomorrow!Cant wait!I want to run it indoors on foams with 17.5. but would run a spec brushed motor if need be! Thats EXACTLY what Im thinking Jamie Too be honest its a shame our outdoor tracks not smoother,I realy fancy GT10,those various Type C shells look the mutts nuts to me..a proper drivers class too!
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 4, 2010 23:25:30 GMT
Terry should be ordering me a 3Racing F1 tomorrow!Cant wait!I want to run it indoors on foams with 17.5. but would run a spec brushed motor if need be! Thats EXACTLY what Im thinking Jamie Too be honest its a shame our outdoor tracks not smoother,I realy fancy GT10,those various Type C shells look the mutts nuts to me..a proper drivers class too! Foams or rubbers I will try both as like Martin I'm planning on trying to do some of the SPC UK rounds which will be rubber only. I dont mind running on foams, but i definately don't want to run a brushless system. For me spec seal can motors are the way to go. Another speedo war is not what i or IMO the class needs (the last six months in TC I think you will all agree, if you want to keep up its a case of throwing money at it and not a little bit either) at least with brushed seal can technology and speedo's we all have kicking around we are all in the same boat! Just my comments! It will be interesting to see the 3racing F109 Jamie!! Cant wait I think with the bumps outside these cars are going to be a little difficult to set up.
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 5, 2010 9:58:38 GMT
Martin I was only thinking about the car not the motor chap,im with you for cheapness. I done some digging around last night,you are right it is a LARGE can of worms,there's some heavy debates on various forums regarding rules,chassis type,tyres and motors ....rather complicated ....we either go our own way with class rules(what the lads want) or follow the leader if some of us want to race one else where?? Theres some crazy rules out there, a lot are in favor of unlimited motor the theory been any motor and no one can be acused of cheating...Nutters!!...most are concerned about scale looks ,tyre wall depth width and dia and max axel width(understandable) too keep it looking like an F1,not about drivability...
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Post by oldtimeracer on Jan 5, 2010 11:45:39 GMT
For what it's worth I tend to agree with Les. It is very complicated regarding different rules in F1 classes and I think if this is going to be a serious class at our club it needs to be kept as simple as possible.
We did run F1 some years ago although it was outdoors. Foams will work fine outside if the track is warm and dry. If damp then they did not work. Rubber is OK but not as good as foam if I remember right.
I cannot see any rubber tyre being as good as foams indoors on carpet.
Rubber tyres on carpet as we have seen are not so good although as set ups get better and more experience is gained then they may be OK but will never be as good as foams which will always have a huge advantage. Using foams however brings it's own problems. The need for tyre truers is one and as 1/12 guys will know, tuning diameters of tyres is yet another option for performance as is the use of additives. Do you really want this if F1 is to be a less expensive class.
If a suitable rubber compound can be found then for me, this would be the best option. However, for those speed freaks amongst us they will never be the ultimate in performance. Indoors that is. Outdoors is another thing entirely.
I suppose it is really down to what people want this class to be. If a performance class then you have to go with foams. If you just want some fun with an F1 car then go with rubber indoors and out.
I also thought the F102/3 older cars looked better. Body shape wise that is.
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 5, 2010 12:32:35 GMT
Just a thought: Foams for indoors and ease of drive are a must,theres nothing worse than a bad handling car especially 2wd,if the motor choice is kept sensible (sealed 540) the cars will have more than enough speed and be pleasant to drive with foams allowing some really close nose to tail racing with little tyre wear ..But as Ian says Im all for rubber as long as we can find some that work!...Terry will be testing some softer rubber compounds soon,apparently Muchmore will have them to fit all current F1's
Ps Ive just ordered an F1.
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on Jan 5, 2010 13:47:13 GMT
After looking for some rubber tyres for my Tamiya F102 (had little luck) i found this #58447 Tamiya Ferrari F60 F104 which comes with rubber tyres www.rcworld.ch/data/tam_58447_01.jpgSpecs & Features • This is an OFFICIALLY LICENSED 1/10 scale R/C assembly kit of the Ferrari F60 F-1 Car. • The kit features 3-dimensional front and rear wings, rear diffuser, side mirrors, and aerofoil suspension arms for enhanced realism. • New rubber tyres and wheels enhance the scale realism of the F60. (4pcs.) • Body can be assembled with or without the polycarbonate sloped side pontoons. • TEU-104BK ESC and Type-540 motor included. • 2-channel R/C system, battery pack & charger are separately required. • The F104 chassis features the same component layout as the F104 PRO and can be upgraded to F104 PRO standards with separately available Option Parts And after looking at the F104 pro www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tamiyaf104prostu-1.jpg which comes with foams i'm guessing that the wheels could be swapped around which seems an easy way to get around foams indoor/rubbers outside. Anyway only guessing and i'll dig around the tamiya website to seem if i on the right track...?
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Darren
Hitting the Tyre
It's better to crash and burn than to fade away
Posts: 88
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Post by Darren on Jan 5, 2010 13:56:32 GMT
I also thought the F102/3 older cars looked better. Body shape wise that is. And so is the price... (cracked my shell on sunday after driving over someones car and hitting the pillar) tried getting a new one, brand new and keeping to the original shell (jordan 191) I found one at £65.... More reason to buy any upto date F1 car
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 5, 2010 14:13:17 GMT
I also thought the F102/3 older cars looked better. Body shape wise that is. And so is the price... (cracked my shell on sunday after driving over someones car and hitting the pillar) tried getting a new one, brand new and keeping to the original shell (jordan 191) I found one at £65.... More reason to buy any upto date F1 car Bloody hell OUCH!!!
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 5, 2010 17:24:27 GMT
I also thought the F102/3 older cars looked better. Body shape wise that is. And so is the price... (cracked my shell on sunday after driving over someones car and hitting the pillar) tried getting a new one, brand new and keeping to the original shell (jordan 191) I found one at £65.... More reason to buy any upto date F1 car I know Tamiya shells are always expensive but that's ridiculous!! I think the reason for the high price is Tamiya doesn't pay the F1 licensed fees for the older cars shells. So you are in fact buying a collectors item. I would think an F103 shell would fit yours if so i just bought a shell and front wing (made by TRG) for £18 including delivery. Let us know if you want the details
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Post by mattsedgley on Jan 5, 2010 18:14:57 GMT
Sorry guys - i've lost track on this thread.. would the club owning a foam tyre truer be a benifit??
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 5, 2010 20:27:55 GMT
Sorry guys - i've lost track on this thread.. would the club owning a foam tyre truer be a benifit?? No to be honest Matt,Our indoor track is small so fast sweepers that tend to eat and cone foams are none existent,as long as the motor power is kept sensible and you swap tyres side to side the foam tyre wear should be minimal.Personally I think the superior drivability of foams should out weigh the extra wear they have compared to rubber...But it would still be nice to find a rubber compound that did work. Suggestion:for the time being lets run this class indoors with say a control motor (decided by the lads) but let them experiment with various rubber/foams to find a best compramise...as I posted earlier there is some new rubber compounds yet to be tested that may well work very well...I dont mind been a guinea pig to test them.
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 5, 2010 21:10:59 GMT
Has a control motor been decided yet for F1 as I will probably need to find one ASAP
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 5, 2010 21:22:49 GMT
Has a control motor been decided yet for F1 as I will probably need to find one ASAP Why that then? ? ;D
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Post by mattsedgley on Jan 5, 2010 22:09:29 GMT
We're talking about the clash motors - maybe the they do three 15, 21, 28 Terry sould be able to advise on which ones are best - he's got them all in stock i think at 7.99 they're alot cheaper than the tamiyas!
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 6, 2010 7:54:42 GMT
Has a control motor been decided yet for F1 as I will probably need to find one ASAP Why that then? ? ;D Cause I have ordered an F1 ..so has Jamie. Martin what motors were you and Darren running on Sunday?..they looked plenty fast enough
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Post by ian on Jan 6, 2010 8:05:38 GMT
That price for a new body is ridiculous! Tamiya will probably be granted or pay for a license to produce F1 stuff for one year only, all moulds will probably have to be destroyed or sent to who ever issued the licence so they then become collectors items hence the huge price. Tamiya may be 100% accurate in their shapes as they also make the static kits but for us who are racing as long as it looks F1 I'm sure that's fine !? How often do you race indoors on a sunday ? I can't make the evenings at the moment So if I get a car and you're only racing indoors my money would be wasted come the summer.
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Post by Martin Young on Jan 6, 2010 8:45:01 GMT
Why that then? ? ;D Cause I have ordered an F1 ..so has Jamie. Martin what motors were you and Darren running on Sunday?..they looked plenty fast enough I ran a kit silver can in mine all day. Darren ran a 17.5 (But lack of pinions meant the gearing was very restrictive). Terry ran a couple of different motors (I think Annsman 21T and a Tamiya sports tuned), so Terry have you any comments. I would like to see something a little faster than the kit silver can. It was a little too easy to drive even with a poor handling car!
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Post by lesbaldry on Jan 6, 2010 10:27:42 GMT
Cause I have ordered an F1 ..so has Jamie. Martin what motors were you and Darren running on Sunday?..they looked plenty fast enough I ran a kit silver can in mine all day. Darren ran a 17.5 (But lack of pinions meant the gearing was very restrictive). Terry ran a couple of different motors (I think Annsman 21T and a Tamiya sports tuned), so Terry have you any comments. I would like to see something a little faster than the kit silver can. It was a little too easy to drive even with a poor handling car! Thanks for that...Ill have a dig about in my motor draw. I know what you mean Martin,mind you yours looked plenty fast enough for a any new driver to RWD....It might pay to tread slowly with motor power for the sake of the new driver?? Depending apon a future tyre type I think a motor choice (indoors) needs to have just enough power for the car to get out of shape slightly but not too much so its the fastest thing between crashes and spin outs as this may put some people off (hard to drive)and will spoil the racing for others?
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